Last night Busted posed some questions on the Paul Newman blog in regards to Venus Neptune type stuff. That is Judge Roy Bean was in love with Lillie Langtry who he’d never met. I thought the questions were interesting but responded saying I could not get my mind on it because the soldier and I had spent the day “making plans for the apocalypse”.
Del asked if I knew something others did not and I said, no. “I just like to talk about this stuff and so does he.” And when I initiated the conversation it went like this:
“I want to talk about this. You know all kinds of stuff and so do I. You have training, profound knowledge of history, years and years of experience… any number of ways of figuring out what is going on. I have my way of knowing things and I want to put all these resources together (8th house!) and figure this out…”
I went on to explain, “Because I can’t talk about this stuff. People don’t want to hear it. It’s negative and when you speak up you become repulsive. It’s not welcome conversation, you become someone to avoid. People decide you’re crazy rather than look at this stuff squarely and I want you to talk to me because I just can’t stand acting like nothing is happening when it is so obvious something is. It’s like having a friend with a man who beats her and we are all supposed to act like this doesn’t happen. I hate that…”
So we spent the day going over our various impressions and comparing notes. It was very satisfying so here’s a chance for you to do the same.
What do you think will happen in the next few years? Be specific!! And if you want to use a fake name… disassociate yourself from your comments, please do. I really want to know what people are thinking out there.
pictured: The Four Horseman of the Apocalypse (a detail) woodcut by Albrecht Dürer, A.D. 1498.
I truly believe that just about anything is possible, though, I did promise my best friend that cannibals wouldn’t eat her, so hopefully that potentiality won’t come about. 😉 But, seriously, though, I think that at this point, there are so many hugely catastrophic “bombs” in the air all at once, that it is hard to say which ones will explode first, or when and where, you know?
Like there’s nuclear issues with Korea and Iran, and there are hijinks going on with the US presidential election, and you can’t tell me that there aren’t, and the financial system collapse sure came at a handy time for the party currently in office, right? The potentiality for a move toward a “dictatorship” of sorts isn’t out of the question in my opinion.
There are also Muslim extremists out there who are targeting our country, no doubt about that. When I joked to my friend the other day about how the cannibals wouldn’t be eating her because the apocalypse would consist of her wearing a burqua and living in purdha, I was only partially joking. Asking myself what culture/religion out there is most motivated to spread itself currently, the Muslims come to mind. Christians, despite their messages of hate, are much more isolationist at this point.
What I keep telling people is, “Hang on to your hats. This is going to be a wild ride.”
I have no idea specifically what is going to happen, but it’s likely to be big and from many quarters.
Is the Soldier planning to set up a militia? I’ll join.
I’ve been having post apocalyptic dreams since I was a little girl.
More recently I’ve been noticing more and more things I’m dreaming actually happen. Only in the past couple years or so, except for a couple rarer incidents when I was a child.
I can’t help but think all the running and fighting and planning and fighting and fighting I deal with in my slumber is some sort of psychological preparation….
But my father is a military historian. Among other things. I grew up with this information running around my head.
And, well, I believe humanity is damn good at surviving whatever we have to. But we’re doing some dangerous stuff to our world, and I’m not sure how good we are at living too close to so many people for too long. Think we may have a tendency to fracture our social fabrics if put under too much stress, especially for resources… that’s how wars generally start.
But I don’t believe in apocalypse… I believe in change. And sometimes it’s drastic. Sometimes you have to cut your losses, buckle up, and get moving. Like my great grandparents’ generation, trying to survive the depression. Life happens. the world changes. You have to deal.
I think there’s going to be massive upheavals in social power structures and the philosophy of individual vs. common good. I’m worried people will continue to trade liberty for security until the point where they suddenly realize that they do, as Franklin noted, have neither… socioculturally that could get really messy. We’re cracking down on demonstrators more and more nowadays. Not as bad as Selma, Alabama, once upon a time, but it’s moving that way. I think the institutional power structures are way too happy with their power and don’t actually want to have to deal with checks and balances and little fine points like service to their citizens.
The rest of the world? Well, we’re going to have some interesting economic times ahead. Global warming is really going to test the human’s ability to adapt (starvation makes people do things they’d otherwise think were crazy) and, at many points, I think the stresses will break down social fabric. And the international community is still not very good at effectively solving what happens when the social structure within a country breaks down.
So, I think there’s a whole host of challenges ahead, but isn’t that always the case? The world will change beyond our ability to imagine, perhaps, and we’ll just have to keep on living, and, hopefully, keep on remembering the power of love, compassion, and the need for individual liberty…
This really is the $64,000,000 question isn’t it?
Over the next FEW years, I don’t think much will occur that could be termed apocalyptic. I like to think that change, for good or ill, comes so gradually that it’s hardly perceptible to observers, except in far hindsight. In history there were, what seem to us now, very sudden events. We see them as in one of those speeded up films of a flower growing and opening, then dying. A person watching that flower in real time wouldn’t notice much movement.
I think there’s no doubt we’re living through a period when all kinds of change will gradually seep in, and when the potential for destruction both natural and manmade is greater than it has ever been throughout history. Yet humans (or some of ’em) have evolved a little bit, hopefully sufficiently to contain the potential.
I’m scared. I really am truly scared and feel like I will have to do something on a level I have never had to do before. This is the reason for the earlier comment.
One thing I was aware of recently is that when Pluto was last in Capricorn, the American Revolution took place. There was a revolt against abuse of power to the extreme point of starting a brand new country (with good intentions). And now Pluto is about to go back into Capricorn, and all of these big things are falling into pieces, a lot having to do with abuse or misuse of power. I do think the US is probably finished with its run as the biggest superpower, especially in terms of money and innovation. I’m hoping that it can simply redefine itself in a positive way, but I don’t know.
As far as the apocalypse, I think things have been brewing beneath the surface for a while. But, being a hopeless optimist, I look for the silver lining, and if things have to fall apart, it’s the perfect way to rebuild and do it better. A natural sort of cycle. Hopefully we could all play a part. BUT: will it be too big to handle? Will it take generations to rebuild? Will we get wiped out?
(I may try to keep things positive, but I do like to talk about this stuff, as negative as it can get. It’s always better to put it out there and face it!)
I’m looking forward to whatever comes up… but I guess that’s my Pluto/Venus and my Aries NN talking…
The way I see it is, regardless of what happens (an epic depression, people becoming mean-faced in the light of it, etc.) clever and resourceful people are going to fare just fine.
I am one of those clever and resourceful people.
There’s no way this is going badly for me.
Then again, this is from a Euro-African, so I can’t comment on America’s situation…
“Is the Soldier planning to set up a militia? I’ll join.”
He won’t hesitate.
“Cruel recession” That was the answer when I asked to my inner self in the future “Waths’s goin on 2010 with the global economy” Concerned with pluto, with oil crisis with my family my house and my job.
Now, that is the answer in my perspective, may be a person in (for instance) Russia, or Spain or Brazil benefits. I had this insight in the expansive phase of economy months ago (Pluto retrogade). On the other hand other signals are confused for me (about violence or aphocalypsis) You can think I am crazy bizarre schizophrenic (I tell you no evidence or traits of psychosis for me with several personality tests)
I have scorpio – neptune – 12(house) trine saturn piscis
Dolce, I think I agree with you most.
I don’t know what will happen – I’m not good at thinking about complex structures in a detailed manner without actually sitting down and mapping it all out.
All I feel I know is that whatever happens, the most important thing is to stay on top of the wave energy-wise, so that we continue to have the most of our available energy resources at the ready, and the most clarity of mind available for strategically using resources wisely.
What I mean by that is – if people descend unconsciously into despair or fear or anxiety, then their energy (mental/emotional/spiritual) gets tied up in sustaining that despair, fear, anxiety.
And (speaking very generally) when we are in circumstances that more easily give rise to negative emotions like these – those are usually the circumstances in which we would most benefit from having all of our resources at-the-ready for investing in the creation of a more desired reality.
I have been reading a bit on the transition of Pluto from Sag to Capricorn – (and I’m still not an expert) – but a piece that became clear to me is that, the legacy of Pluto in Sag is a revolution of our collective spiritual and philosophical approach. Mindful awareness of resources – think the resurgence in mindfulness meditation and related philosophies, increased awareness of the limitation of earth resources and the impacts of the philosophy under which we consume … everything.
I think if we allow ourselves, through Pluto in Capricorn, to descend unmindfully into consumption of resources – including our spiritual and emotional energy (though depression/fear/anxiety) – we give up the benefit of the legacy of Pluto in Sag. And we don’t want to do that. It is the natural evolutionary progression (to my thinking) that it is now time to put these new philosophies into practice to meet the new challenge of Pluto in Capricorn.
When I think about what will happen in the next few years (and I do) – I next think immediately, regardless of what does happen, what do we want to happen?
To me that is the most important question. I think of that scene in Finding Nemo where a giant school of fish is caught in a net and being hauled up by the fisher men. And the individual fish are panicking and moving (putting their energy) in all different directions. Individually, each fish was powerless against the fishermen and the net. But collectively, when they all swam one direction, they were a greater power than the fishermen and the net. And collectively, they changed the reality for all to a more desired reality through a conscious use of collective power.
When I think about what I want to happen – I think that I would like the collective to align like this in positive ways, especially through Pluto in Capricorn. I would like the collective to be mindful of energy and how each of us is a powerful creator and how much more powerful we can be when we are aligned (across the world even) together. So that instead of the temptation to immediately feel fear/depression/anxiety at the idea of big challenges and/or external changes, there is excitement.
Sometimes I think, we may not be big enough to say – thwart a comet coming for planet earth (though we may be), but I think we are big enough collectively to alter the course of the human-created currents in our lives (for example, economics and politics). Politics and economics and, by relation, war and all of that do not exists without people. Therefor, they only are fed by our energy. And since we ultimately DO have control over our energy, so long as we are aware of the energy we are generating when and how, then this is our game.
I am not saying there would not be commitment and work involved (these are Capricorn traits to me). But I do think we can move in harmony with the Pluto in Capricorn energy and use the experience (though the tremendous amount of work that is likely to be required with Capricorn) – to generate something planned and mindful. Deliberate and desired.
Probably I have posted this on here but it’s worth sharing again. I found this article immensely fascinating, wonderfully written and it hauntingly rings true to what I believe we’re heading into in America.
I wouldn’t be surprised if there was some warfare here in the US.
Charlotte – that is a great article! Thank you.
I’m siding with Michael Lutin on this one, as per Althera’s post.
As for me, I’ve been having apocalyptic dreams since the age of 14, so the current fear and paranoia these days is just an outward reflection of what I’ve been living with for most of my life. Again, when you wake up in a cold sweat more often than not and have been living with a constant fear of the end of the world for 14 or so years, the actual prospect of it seems almost like…dare I say it?…a relief, like “Finally, /something/ will happen.”
What I find more disturbing than X event or Y event is how callous people can be in the face of others’ suffering (i.e. after Katrina). I’m not saying everyone, of course, and I realize more often than not it’s a coping mechanism, but if that’s how we behave when people in some remote situation are negatively affected, how will we treat each other when bad things go down closer to home? This is what I wonder.
In response to the first comment.
I grew up in a fundamentalist evangelical conservative charismatic church. People underestimate how far some others are willing to go in order to execute “God’s Plan.” Plenty of people, not just fundamentalist Islamists, are trying to hurry on the apocalypse so the sinners can get theirs and the good people can get raptured or get a New Earth.
And I’m not talking about the crazies on the corner with their signs of repentance and the end of the world. Regular people who as individuals are decent and will shelter a stranger in trouble but as a group are setting up parallel economies, steeple-jacking mainstream “centrist” churches, attacking separation of church and state, instilling crusader type attitudes in our military academies and targeting their hate towards everyone that refuses to be just like them.
Political parties court them when an election looks close. Many from that element run major corporations. The money is there, the motive is there, the will is there and though the politicians mock them behind their back, their influence is still felt.
The stage is set. Pluto in Sagittarius put in play Religious Extremism. Now Pluto in Capricorn will take these new tools and apply them to Governmental Extremism. The muslim countries didn’t just flip over to fundamentalist theocracy over night, even if they always seemed more conservative than not to us Westerners. It was a slow process of fear, propaganda, bullying and straw men.
I believe that america is going to realize, not too soon from now, that it is flat broke, to the point that it can not wage its wars or pay its soldiers, run its government or pay its employees, because the American taxpayer is out of work and the nation is in serious debt, and there are no replacement jobs available.
There are less than 200 milion working people in a nation of roughly 400 million. One percent of that number ( 2 million) are seriously wealthy and they pay very little in the way of taxes: you and I, the shrinking middle class, are secretly supporting a whole nation while the wealthy borrows against our lifetime incomes to cover their debts and millions of us can’t make our mortgage payments, while jobs that pay a living wage are really almost a mythology at this point. Everyone is working part time, real wages are *going down*. I’m working part-time, and I have no idea at all what my kids are going to do for a living.
Once we realize we are broke, the country will dissolve. Food shortages will be common and there will be no such thing as a job. Our military will have to come home and be drawn down. Public services will be cut, including police, fire, emergency services.
Violence will increase ten thousand fold as people are forced our of their homes and jobs. Paramilitary factions will crop up, including already-cohesive gangs such as MS-13, and they might band together for convenience with terrorist groups with their own agenda. Jails wont be able to hold the criminal elements, underfunded civil militia won’t be able to contain them. The poor will run raids on the rich or established, and gated communities will become fortified strongholds.
I think at some point we’ll be attacked from within by either religious or ideological forces that will have a grand time slicing up the country. Without access to medical care, proper food or decent sanitation, and with the increasing violence, I’m figuring that five to eight years from now at least half of whoever is in your household will be dead. And whoever is left will be a *lot* thinner.
what will crop up in place of regular coherent government will be parallel governmental groups, such as the kind that develop out of churches or ethnic groups. So you’ll have your Islamic semi-government, paramilitary, charitable trusts and etc., and your Catholic and Fundamentalist and so on. When these groups begin to compete for power, there could be a civil war, although it also seems likely that in the case of that much Balkanism some other larger entity might just march in and take over — either world government or whatever big nation is on top at the time: Russia, China, Islam.
Drea – I find your comment very interesting. Based on those thoughts and your experiences, what it is that you would most like to see happen during Pluto in Capricorn transition?
I think eva is not crazy. 😉
Althera–Just when I started to think ‘This reading is too complex for me’….you put it in Finding Nemo terms. Thank you, thank you, thank you!
Like “aries”, I’ve been having apocalyptic dreams since I was a kid. I can’t say I understand what they mean, or what the purpose for the apocalypse was, but there is always an eerily familiar feeling. Like I’ve been there before, or I’m bound to be there someday.
Thanks Elsa. No, not crazy… sorta wish I was, though.
I read what Eva writes (and I know others who feel and fear similar things), but I think it’s really important to also acknowledge what good could happen – and beyond that what everyone wants to happen instead.
There is enough energy and there are enough resources to create a different reality than that. Who doesn’t want a better reality than that? Raise your hands.
Last night I dreamt that I was reading the newspaper and made the connection between Pakistan and the fact that the US had invaded Iran and no one knew but me. I was reading a headline that no one could decipher.
I was drifting in the middle of nowhere with no one around in that dream. The feeling is becoming embedded and is now part of my everyday waking reality. I’m not scared. I’m getting prepared though.
Althera I tend to agree with you. I was putting away teabags today after shopping and thought: “Gee. Someone in Auschwitz survived on less than this.”
Meaning: there are lots of us who are highly adaptable and the end is not nigh. Change is happening all around us, by the second.
To me it’s not: this will happen. It’s already happening. YOU ARE IN IT. So yes you can start living as best you can starting right now.
I’m also not scared or religious extremism. That convergence of minds happens at the birth stage of extreme conflict.
Religion is not the problem, it is a by-product
Religion is a place to go to maintain the order of spiritual thought.
That place of thought is what is being arranged. We’re all learning new ways to see ourselves and the world/reality around us.
Wakey wakey, we’re out of eggs and baykee.
Are you going to make outmeal or keep eating hydrogenated sugar oats because they taste better?
And what the FUCK is up with my spelling? I hate this Mercury Rx. It’s making me look stupid. And I’m trying to have a good reputation here, LOL!
ha ha ha reputation.
I have zero expertise in astrology, but this topic has been on my mind and I want to jump in. This what I perceive to be the near future (not a couple of years, perhaps six or more).
I think it will be very hard. The worst of hard times, more than any of us have ever known (with perhaps the exception of depression era survivors and WWII atomic bomb survivors and Shoah survivors). I think it will be hard, but those that manage to unify… shock and awe villages, per se… will get through. I think those people will be the ones to experience the new beginning, the next cycle of humanity, on earth. But I think they will all be very very old before that next cycle is realized. I’d love to think that I’ll be among them with my family and those I Love, but who knows how a person will respond when faced with true adversity. I hope, though.
I have a lot of hope that the next decade will bring out the very best of humanity in the face all the mess to come.
I think it will be a beautiful earth then. A higher evolved society, not utopian… just enlightened.
I attempt to comfort myself with the mantra that it is all an illusion anyway and in the end we all return to the source of ourselves, perfectly unified.
I haven’t read the other comments, but I will now. Didn’t want to affect my response.
And I’m long since past worrying about people thinking I’m nuts.:-P But I agree, that people shut you off if you speak out loud about this, in general.
Thanks Elsa, for putting this out there. I am very interested in the responses you get and will be reading.
“So what’s the plan Elsa?”
The plan depends on the conditions as they unfold same as every other day.
So what’s the plan Elsa?
My instinct is to store stuff like food, water petrol, money. Dig a bunker? Head to the forest to a well stocked hidaway cabin?
This topic brings out the survival instinct.
Back in year 2000 I bought into the apocolyptic style media about computers bringing down all the sytems we rely on. I hoarded food and got fearful in expectation. nothing happened.
Nearby, in the 1970s, a heap of alternate communities began around here (Northern, New South Wales, Australia). Many got off the power grid with solar systems, grew vegies, built grand shacks and raised children. Wide mix of people came for either cheap land, as hippies, single parents, some back to earth types, some hiding from the law but above all mostly self sufficient.
Will they cope any better when the shit goes down?
maybe, maybe not.
Part of my plan involves eating. (It would, I’m a Taurus). But seriously: growing something you can nourish yourself with is incredibly empowering.
Building, see? I have Capricorn Moon. I need to build/climb to feel empowered.
I’m learning how to make bread this fall. It’s a good experience and makes me feel hopeful. I think one humans are disconnected from their food supply there is huge trouble.
Tomorrow I’m brewing myself a 23L batch of beer in my friend’s basement. Because I’m going to have fun, and if my resources get so scant that all I can do is eat the bread I’ve baked and drink the beer I’ve brewed I’m going to survive. And y’all can have a piece, too.
I discuss the world future with my husband quite often. There aren’t that many that want discuss it. It’s good to know that others do think and talk about these things. Thank you.
I believe the world is changing much faster than we humans can adapt or evolve. I’m talking about ecological changes. Our societies cannot cope.
I believe that sudden climate change can and will occur. When the ocean currents fail from global warming, we will have a new ice age. Scientists are seeing this has happened before.
My husband says the wars of the 21th century will be biological wars. When food and water becomes even more scare, people will move in mass migrations to find shelter and sustenance. That’s when the established governments and/or militaries will control the population numbers in the least noticeable and identifiable way.
I think there is the possibility that we will loose all of our culture and learning. It’s happened before. We didn’t remember how to read the Egyptian texts. It was lost until the Rosetta stone. That’s if we survive.
The human race may go extinct within the next 100 years. It could happen.
However, the world economy may collapse before the climate change, not afterward.
I think Eva is very sane and quite possibly correct.
@ Kashmiri, FireFox spell checks. And, I think you have a fine reputation.
My plan? Live in a temperate zone on a hill with a good water supply. Learn how to garden. Buy ammunition. Be flexible. Live.
Oh yeah, and stay positive.
Historically, it seems to me that the relative political/economic stability experienced by developed nations after the cold war settled down is an anomaly. It amazes me how some will consider the stability they’ve experienced as the “norm”. I can’t match that attitude with what I observe about the world. Social upheaval and a very modern, mass/mechanistic kind of human trauma are just par for the course for a modern/capitalistic world, and is not really special nor apocalyptic. These things in fact, are what characterize modernity to me and they occur with regularity (although in a very uneven manner in regards to WHO they affect). How strange, that the world order that celebrates things like individual autonomy and universal human rights, would be the very system that manages to facilitate the violation of such ideals so grievously!
As for specifics? I would look to modern world histories (late 1800s onwards). There are trends, many of which are very dehumanizing. I think that is my most serious concern in the event of social upheaval – to resist dehumanization. There are 2 kinds of survival to me: that of the body and of the soul. In a good environment, both types support each other. In a bad environment, you may be forced to prioritize, to choose one over the other. How to preserve your humanity in a concentration camp? In a fascist regime? When societal order has completely restructured, are you able to keep the structure of your humanity in tact or does it fall as well? (No judgement intended w/this question.) And can you regain your humanity if you lost it? That is my specific concern.
p.s. kashmiri> Breadmaking and baking are wonderful skills. I saw an interview w/a Zen dude who said that our hands are happiest when they get to do something other than typing!
Within the next couple of years the dollar and the pound will collapse and we will be in a worse state than the 1930s. What this will lead to is anyone’s guess but I’ve been reading survival manuals to get some programming in my head about how to deal with the worst case scenario, and am seriously looking at getting some kind of survival training. What I think is most telling is that events in the world are now dovetailing with much of the things that have been foretold in esoteric circles for years. It’s all there, should you care to read the signs.
Oh and by the way, all of the above is just my opionion 🙂
I had my first “apocalyptic” vision when I was seventeen or so. Intuitively, I grasped that there were forces and dynamics in place that were simultaneously progressive/evolutionary and destructive. Some forces moving toward evolution, and some toward destruction acting at the same time. We already live in a “world” at least here in the U.S. that did not exist just twenty years ago. These days, it is unavoidable to be aware that we live on a planet. I remember that in the 1980s and 1990s this level of awareness did not occur. Many systems are collapsing, and in the process new ideas and systems are developing. We as humans have creative and destructive capacities. There are many destructive forces, and there are creative forces as well. In order for the nations of this planet to survive, triangular social stratification needs to end. If governments and the wealthy do not change, they will be at risk, and chaos will ensue. That said, social changes are already happening. We live in an interconnected holographic universe where the part is the whole and the whole is the part. There will always be forces of destruction, our universe has both suns and solar systems, as well as black holes and “negative” matter. Everything has its place. Pray, meditate, visualize, act. What else is there? Paradigm shifts have occurred all throughout human history, we are already in a new one just knowing at a level unknown before, just how intimately interconnected we all are. There is no other option than to use our personal power to create, transform, and heal. Blessings to our beautiful planet, third from our amazing sun.