Recently, I watched someone do something wrong. 80% of people would immediately know the thing is wrong. The other 20% might think nothing is wrong or whatever. Let’s forget about them. I am talking about something clearly wrong to the majority of people. Something like beating up an old person and stealing their five dollars when you have no need for money. Most people agree, that’s a wrong thing to do.
I was surprised when the person did this thing because they did it in broad daylight, with no shame. Like rules don’t apply to them. But forget all the judging. The next thing I felt was stone cold fear.
I felt fear because what’s the karmic price of something like this? I immediately thought the payback could be extremely harsh and I’ll tell you why.
I did something crappy to someone when I was about 25 years old. I was cavalier about the whole thing. I cared for about two seconds. Then, at 27.5 (my Saturn return), someone did the exact same thing to me, except worse.
I suffered at that time. What goes around does come around. It came around to me, in spades. It’s a lesson I’ve never forgotten.
So what if you’re still doing this stupid stuff when you’re 50 years old? Do you think this stuff goes unpunished.
I think some people are given a lot of latitude. They’re given lots of time and many opportunities to right a wrong. If they let them pass, eventually it’s BAM. Hit square between the eyes.
Remember when Winona Ryder was caught shoplifting? Like she can’t afford the clothes? How many times had she done that and then, BAM. Embarrassing.
I see all these truly horrible things that befall people. You think no one can touch you; next thing you know – Bam!
It’s not that I think everything bad that happens is brought on by karma. But I do wonder why people who are old enough to know better, take these kinds of risks.
Do you think things like this too? Where is Saturn in your chart?
I understand. I think that’s right..
Having a good deal of saturn and pluto in my natal chart, I have learned that if you dance with the devil you will pay.. for me it’s usally instantaneous I carry the guilt with me and that’s enfough for my stomach to turn. Add in all my sadge and it just hurts to hurt people. But there are people ( mostly lovers ) that I wonder, I love them, I know there is a heart in there, a good brain in there, why do they continue to fuck up their karma? Do they not understand how to learn? Lol idk why the world is this way.. Yin and yang . I guess. Hard thing to comprehend.
Yes, I’m almost always considering the Karmic impact of my actions before I take them. Perfect example is my ex, who has repeatedly asked me to have sex with him. I always say no because: 1) he is currently married to the woman he cheated on ME with & I refuse to condone or participate in cheating; 2) I will not take on that sort of karmic debt for anyone. Also, I feel as though being married to her is his karmic debt, as she treats him much like he treated me for years. Who am I to rob him of his lesson(s)? ?? I think about the karma others incur when I see bad things being done. How some can be so oblivious is astounding to me.
Thanks for the great example, Lilly. 🙂
I think some people only feel alive when hurting and controlling others or getting away with something somehow, or believing they do. Even if they are aware karma has come back to them before, the compulsion to continue the destructive behavior overrides that. They’re just more reptilian than others. Age not only doesn’t change that, it seems to worsen it, from what I’ve seen. Saturn in the 4th in Gemini.
As horrifying as it is on one level, it’s interesting on another. I often see this with people who have been incredibly blessed. They know this to be the case, but it’s like a monkey on their back or something. Like an addiction of sorts. They still have to screw people, often, the little people. It’s like they believe they have some kind of mastery over life, which of course they do not. Cancer certainly does not discriminate.
But the worst of all is when someone next to you, pays for your deal. For example, the drunk parent who drives around and then their child is killed or paralyzed (by a drunk driver). And they have to live with that the rest of their lives.
I know this is an ugly topic but it just seem prudent not to invite things like this into your life because it WILL happen. I know, because I am an astrologer and I routinely work with people who have suffered horrendous things. This is not a theory. It’s something I witness.
There is a lot of grace given, but to think it will always be that way is arrogant and foolish.
I definitely believe that the “sins of the fathers” are passed to the children. Sometimes, however, the parents couldn’t give a damn if their children suffer for what they’ve done… they are so deep in denial they refuse to look at their own behavior and besides, maybe it was their (the kids) karma that they suffered … so many rationalizations. My mother is like this. I’ve heard these words come out of her own mouth, when we all know that her direct actions set stuff into motion.
Ah, I missed this.
Yeah, well, yes. The thing is, some of the possible suffering people experience, resulting (directly, or reminders, echoing) from behaving badly, might be invisible to others around them. At the least, they’re eroding the quality of who they are.
The wife of my mother’s first cousin attended my mother’s funeral. She was a known bitch. A few months later, I saw her at a family function and she asked me “SO? WHAT HAVE YOU BEEN DOING SINCE YOUR MOTHER DIED? NOTHING?” When I replied I’d been involved in a creative project, she said “OH…I DIDN’T KNOW YOU WERE TALENTED…” A few years later her son died of brain cancer leaving a wife and children and she had her own bout with breast cancer.
I always think about karmic results of my actions, these thoughts have stopped me during times when I was hell bent on payback! I like this post Elsa, I, like you believe that eventually one pays for one’s actions, be they good or bad. My ex’s mother was treated horribly by her husband, verbally and physically. She stayed in the marriage (she said) because of her child; she also waited 30 years for him to get his payback. One day he dropped dead while changing the tire of one of his other women. She was more hurt by the thought of him dropping dead and not receiving payback for the way he treated her that she became more bitter. so now when I feel wronged, I think of her and her wanting payback, and not getting it (in her eyes) along with my own what’s gonna come back on me thoughts; I change my mental direction, I’m not for coming back trying to right my wrongs!
The fear of accruing karmic debt stops me from doing many things I would love to do. I really hope my innate schadenfreude doesn’t fall under karmic debt because few things give me more pleasure than seeing someone who was cruel to me or someone I love get smashed in the chops.
If a person did something bad, like got me fired by lying about me, or hurt my kid, if I had one, I wouldn’t think it’s a sin to feel a little pleasure for feeling like they got what they deserved. As long as you don’t go too far, like become blood thirsty.
Sheer honesty … I love it. (Not that the rest of you are not honest, too). 🙂
Family
Saturn is transiting my 5th house and squaring my Moon and Pluto and then Chiron until October.
I have a son who is in college, he is constantly asking me to pay for everything. Deposit and rent on an apartment, a new cell phone, vacations, etc. I cannot/will not ask his father to pitch in, he sent me a letter when our son turned 18 saying he was finished with child support.
My own father left my mom when I was 11, and paid bare minimum child support as well and quit when I was 18. My mom really struggled, sometimes she had to go to the food bank. I really put her thru hell. When I was my son’s age, I took great financial advantage of my mom. Like me, she felt guilty raising a child alone and struggled financially. I showed her no mercy, unfortunately.
Now that Saturn is transit the 5th and square my Moon for the third and final time, I feel karma full force. I have been paying those requests my son makes as cheerfully as my mom did for me, and I have been thinking of my mom a lot and wondering what she would say if she could see me now. She died one year to the day I became pregnant with my son.
She would always tell me that one day I would know and understand.
Welcome, sudie. 🙂
Interesting topic?. I though, wonder if there are people who are given free pass for all of their lives. I’d like to see everyone held responsible for their actions. The example of the drunk parent is truly heartbreaking. Did he really deserve what he got? I don’t know….
It is interesting to note where asteroid Karma (#3811) falls in a natal chart. Hard and positive aspects of this asteroid apply when applying them in your natal chart. Another astrology site states that negative karmic events examples include accidents, heart breaks, “unfair” occurrences and money losses. On the flip side, positive karmic events are sudden strokes of good fortune, and chance meetings with a true love. In my chart, asteroid Karma is conjunct my 7th House Leo Uranus and asteroid “Jayne.” I frequently begin a dating relationship “out of the blue.” (As you would deduce, I am a member of an online dating service.) Now do they last, unfortunately, no. But they are fun!
Since Elsa used the word “BAM” a lot in today’s column, I looked up and found that tr asteroid BAM (#2031) is posited at 26 degrees Taurus. This asteroid refers to literal or figurative “explosive” and/or sudden events. Uranus/Pluto on steroids! Tr BAM is exactly opposite my natal BAM. I think I’ll stay in bed under the covers today!
The example crime was a blatant no brainer wrong. But not all error is so blatant. I was thinking a lot about this as I pondered my life long friendships. I see the cycles in my friends’ lives and also in mine. None of us (lifelongs or me) are perfect. And sometimes we (lifesongs and me) cry foul at what mirrors back at us or points out the same situation we are creating or reacting to over and over again.
I have Saurn conjunct Pluto in 8th house – Libra, where it’s exalted. So let’s just say that I’m a firm believer in karma.
I too was on the recieving end of Karma’s 9 inch heels some years ago. In Libra 8th house it’s all about relationships and shared resources. We lived together for 6 years – until we both had our Saturn return – and the second Pluto/Uranus square happned.
And it’s really ironic how this article was published the exact same day I realized just HOW selfish I had acted in this relationship. We were together for 8 years and during the whole time I let my ex BF pay for a lot of things: dinners. New furniture. travels. Things like that. Plus a lot of expensive gifts and so on.
Not many times did I do the same in return. I didn’t have a lot of money, but I should have given my part (~ shared resources of the 8th house).
When he asked that I invites him out for a lovely dinner when I finally got a job… I didn’t. I let him pay. And the birthday gifts I bought afterwards was for MY pleasure, not really HIS. He just wanted a dinner.
A couple of months later – he broke up. I lost everything, except for my job and clothes.
So yeah. Karma? You betcha.
And today I realized how guilty I’ve been feeling ever since. Remorse is a bitter brew but deserved. He wasn’t perfect, but my own part in this relationship was not good enough. At my Saturn return I got owned. Big time.
And it took me almost 4 years from the date of the break-up to realize this. But better late than never, right? That’s what Saturn is all about after all…
Next: find out how to go from selfish love to selfLESS love… Jupiter in Libra – I’m coming!!
Hopefully this realization (and your humility) will bring you the grace of another opportunity. I write this from time to time on this blog, “You don’t miss your water till your well run dry…” It’s a Taj Mahal song. 🙂
Thank you for taking time to reply Elsa. This was indeed an eye-opening insight for me, starting with me being puzzled how I had not been able to forgive him for all his (some of them percieved crimes) in my eyes. If I really loved him, I would have been able to eventually, right? But instead I realized I had to forgive MYSELF for loving selfishly.
I’ve had back aches the past YEAR or so – but after yesterday a lot of the pain seems to have dissappeared. Of course not all of it, but enough to make an impact. My breathing got easier and my food intake the past 24 hours have been somewhat reduced – like I don’t need to eat all that much anymore to “kill” these feelings that has been bottled up inside for so long. My oh my! The body and mind is truly amazing!
I’ve just never seen good people (or actions) rewarded and bad people (or actions) punished. Never. I’m not a believer of karma. It’s usually the good are punished and the bad are rewarded, as long as my life experiences go.
I was still kind of mild about this karma (and reincarnation) theory though, I was saying to myself “well, maybe it’s true”, until Pluto finished transiting my 12th house. Pluto through 12th was such a belief killer for me, with the help of many disgusting and unlucky circumstances. I have absolutely no beliefs left about anything. And I’m fine with it.
Welcome!
Belief killing is one of Pluto’s specialities. But really, it is helping you become more REAL about things in life. He ha to kill them so you can build up new ones, based on relity, not your subconsciouss views you don’t know were ruling your life.
I’ve had my beliefs about human nature killed too, but I’d much rather be conscious about the good, the bad and the ugly than wearing rose-colored glasses… Or maybe that’s just me.
Yes, Pluto “killed” Neptune (the 12th house) – but it did it with a purpose. With long term planets sometimes it’s only possible to see the Purpose of this several years from when it happened.
I side with Bored Neptune Person on this. Pluto in 12th wiped out my religious beliefs as well. I said goodbye to all organized forms of worship and never looked back. Karma? I do not think so. I’ve seen people abusing others for decades who were perfectly fine and respected and those who did not fight back and were in victim position because it was the right and humble thing to do. It’s like statistics. If you really want to see something, you we’ll be convinced you see it whether it’s there or on not. I do not believe there are consequences of causing pain to others. I believe there ara consequences of passively enduring pain though.
I went to high school with a guy who was a horrible person. Untouchable arrogance, abusive to people, tortured animals … a much loathed & feared man. He was in a horrific car accident shortly before graduation. Ran under an 18-wheeler, trapped in his burning car.
He lived almost a month, enduring what must have been unimaginable pain (>80% of his body burned), before succumbing to his injuries. Just unlucky? Or, did his chickens come home to roost? Who knows. I do know many were relieved when he was removed from society permanently.
I’m always wondering if Karma concerns things that are not done intentionally (out of lack of experience, or knowledge, or fear for example)???
I feel I’ve done things I could’ve done better, but didn’t know how at the time.
Saturn (conjunct Sun) in Leo in 10th.
I don’t know if karma really exists, but the principle of it seems good enough for me, makes sense. Just plain justice: if you do bad, you deserve bad in return.
However, there are people who get away with things. It’s infuriating. I hate injustice with a passion.
I guess I’m lucky that Saturn is tightly conjunct my Sun and if I willfully do something wrong, the payback is instant and the punishment poetically fits the crime. It trained me early to think before I do something stupid.
I do not believe in Karma.I have suffered unnecessarily. Life has been unjust.One needs support of organisations to get away with bad behavior.
I also think you can insulate yourself against karma. I’ve seen people do really mean things to others, but are untouchable because they really don’t care about anyone. Usually they are financially self-sufficient so they don’t rely on anyone else for money, which would mean they’d have to be half a human being and negotiate a relationship. Being in relationships usually means you get reality checks in some way. I’m not talking about dysfunctional relationships where people stay even if you’re cruel; I’m talking about more healthy relationships where people call you on your bullshit. Maybe the karma happens in our next life; maybe not at all for some people. I vacillate between believing in God/Karma and just thinking its all a crapshoot.
Imagine dating someone name Karma. It sounds like a porn star’s name.
On a serious note. I feel that maybe the universe mixes it up, so that we don’t know the whole picture. Maybe we’re not meant to know until judgment day.
Anonymoushermit, on your serious note, I share your suspicion. 🙂
Agree with Neptune here. And Tantrum. I see this stuff all the time, and it’s a big area of life that is a huge question mark for me.
I think of Karma differently. Karma means action, and our actions have results. When those results are hurtful and unkind we need to learn a lesson about the repercussions of our actions. This lesson will continue to show up in many different forms until we learn it.
I don’t see the universe as punishing us, just showing us our lessons until we complete them, Karma over. On to the next lesson. We grow or we go through Ground hog’s day over and over again, until we do.
Saturn in Capricorn, in my 3rd house.
I think that our actions, over time, shape our character (Saturn). What kind of person we are. If we want to be part of a network of people – community – then having character that others can respect, matters.
I think that a mature adult, behaving badly, is cutting themself off from that trust – whether they want to know it or not.
No ideas of any kind about karma.
On a different tack, I often find that life, each life, all the different ways people can be.. can amaze me: simple and complex, by turns. And since I have to turn that thought into something comprehensible & in keeping with the topic, I’ll say, I do believe everything we know is the creation of a loving Creator (who is beyond my ability to pinpoint). So, real love is tailor fitted, to fit both.. and we’re free, to tune in, or turn away – tune back in, if we want.
*sorry if I caused any confusion, that’s the best I can do, right now*