Recently I worked with a man in his early 20’s. He’s married and very devoted to his wife. It was clear to me that he puts her happiness ahead of his own…which is the right thing to do.
This is what most all of us want, isn’t it? We want real (Capricorn) deep (Pluto) love (Venus). And it’s become so rare.
How many people do you know, who are in their twenties, married and completely devoted to their spouse? I’m fortunate to know six or seven couples like this. They give me hope.
Do you fear deep (Pluto) commitment (Capricorn)? Do you know why?
What do you think will happen if you marry one person for life?
I married one person, and I thought it was for life. It wasn’t. I also put his happiness ahead of mine. It didn’t work. Here’s why.
#1 – he was incapable of being happy (during the time we were together)
#2 – if he put anyone’s happiness ahead of his, it wasn’t mine
Now I’m afraid of getting together with anyone who would drain me dry, and not give a single drop in return. I’m overcoming that by building my confidence that I can spot such a person before he gets too close to me.
I’m with someone like that nowHe puts himself firt and drains the energy of anyone he’s near’I am working my way out of it and hope to put him out of my life forever..I’m done with relatonships after that, except for my Daughter and pets
My experience exactly. That was seven years ago and I haven’t recovered yet.
I know three couples like this right now!! it is wonderful. They get it. They’ll do fine, I think. It’s impressive.
Curious Wanderer — Don’t be afraid. Some people are bad partners. Some are good. It is like being afraid of shoes after one pair doesn’t fit. I had a less than fab guy once too once and now have had a great one for eight years. You know what a taker/drainer is now, right? Okay. So if you smell a drainer, walk away, keep looking. Lots of nice good people out there. You might even meet a giver in taker clothing who got burnt like you and is trying to be “tougher” — happened to a friend but she peered closer and found the giver and he could relax and be himself! they’ve been happy for ten years now! Have faith.
Love what you said. i so agree.
Aww, thanks for this. Great piece of advice.
“What do you think will happen if you marry one person for life?”
Well, before getting married I used to think it meant symbiosis with another person.
But with Asc in cancer I notice myself swimming from symbiosis towards my Dsc and the values of capricorn into a more mature relationship with restrictions, “do not enter”-signs and freedom to be the persons we are.
I am a saggitarius, he is a taurus – needless to say we are not the same.
I’ve been thinking about this because I have a male friend, 69, who has a girlfriend in his hometown who he leaves while he travels. When he’s traveling he expects to “do his own thing” ( sleep with other women) and he expects girlfriend will be available for him when he returns.
I know people are different. Some don’t have the DNA for a longterm relationship. They’ve never seen a good long term relationship modeled and they don’t have a clue how to do it.
And yet, I don’t envy my friend at all. Shallow, transient relationships are not for me. I’ve got too much Scorpio in me for that.
If you can’t invest deeply in a relationship, what do you expect to get out of it? I don’t want to die knowing I didn’t really matter that much to anyone.
I agree, Lakshmi. It’s not for everyone. But I feel sorry for the people who WOULD be happy in a situation like this, since they have very little support for a lifestyle like this, or instruction.
But here is what kills me: we all love to see these couples who have been together 50 or 60 years.
I don’t think we teach or tell people that this is possible, or even desirable when they are young…and I think it’s crappy. And that’s what heartening to me about this – some people figure it out anyway, which is amazing.
My stepson and his wife got married in their early 20’s. I admire them…they’re in their 30’s now.
Hmmm, this only works if both really do the same, make the same effort to do so at least, and are not selfish. If the priorities are the same, if they manage to survive ‘adult life’ crises together, ’cause 20’s are pretty harsh nowadays. I would love to be like this and I can be, but my Taurus Moon craves to be adored and if it’s not for long he will become selfish and needy and if not attended still, will slowly search for it’s basic cravings elsewhere, which I blame Venus in Saggitarius for too. I don’t know many couples like this in my back yard, i think I know only 3 that really try hard to be totally devoted and it’s been like this for 6-7-8 years already for them. The rest kind of didn’t make it. I think Venus – Pluto in synastry is very important too.
I don’t know if I really feel it’s someone else’s job to make sure I’m happy. By this, I mean the idea of sitting back and going, “Does/did so and so put my happiness first” makes me respond to myself, “Well, really….who cares? That’s not up to him.”
Firstly, I’ll grant you that two people cannot exist in a relationship where one is unhappy, and that’s stone-cold fact. They cannot exist if they are not working as a team, and that each member of that team is getting his or her needs met as they do their relationship thing together…which certainly does go a long way toward being in a happy relationship as a whole.
But that said, I feel like it’s my job to make sure I’m happy, independently. Once I’m happy with my own personal shit, he’s welcome to bring his own happy personal shit and let it mingle with mine and thus our lives are uplifted even higher. There will be concessions from each party to make sure that both are respecting each other’s individuality and independence, of course; compromise keeps the happy thrumming.
All that said? My happiness is up to me, and I feel like looking for happiness in someone – or expecting them to make you happy as a condition of your relationship – is a mistake.
Just my opinion, for me and myself, your own mileage may vary, not a qualified legal or medical opinion, void where prohibited…..
Also, putting yourself in a situation where you put someone else’s happiness over your own to the point where you’re unhappy for the sake of love is just stupid. I forgot to include that. There comes a point where I damn sure will put my own damn happiness first, sorry Bub. I may love you lots, but I love me more. Full stop.
I hear ya luci…. Ever since Saturn went into Scorp, this Scorp stellium has been flying solo and it’s been a great experience. I have always been the one to make sacrifices in relationships and it just doesn’t work for me. Not only my happiness, but also how I live my life and spend my time is more important.
I guess I also don’t want to be responsible for making someone else happy. If you can’t be happy by yourself, don’t put it on me, ya know? I’m here to support you and I’m here to be the leader of your fan club, but you being happy is up to YOU to figure out, yo.
I love love love your take on this Luci, my feelings match yours exactly- after years of therapy and self development. Am ‘finally ‘ leaving my hubby after 25 years and 4 children later. I’m making my own happiness. Hope you’re still loving yourself first!
I agree. While the young man Elsa is referring to seems to have a happy marriage, there are just as many if not more who you can never make happy. The martyr marries the critic/abuser.
I’ve seen it time and time again, especially in the older generations, and especially in women. Expected to put everyone ahead of themselves. That is not to say there weren’t happy marriages, appreciative husbands (or wives, of course the sexes/genders can switch with those problems)…just that one has to be very self aware and tread carefully until they truly understand the other person and their own relationship dynamics.
My sister (the most loving, generous person I know) and her girlfriend went on blind dates with 2 guys when they were 15. Half-way through the date, they went to the ladies’ room and agreed they’d be happier if they switched blind dates. That was 45 years ago. My sister and her husband got married the Christmas after they graduated high school and they have been married and in love ever since! I think the secret of their marriage is that they grew up together and waited a decade to have kids. Also, my sister has never done anything that would have made her husband feel bad. (That includes her decision not to go to college when her kids were grown because it might make her husband feel bad.) At any rate, Their kids seem to have learned the lesson of love from their parents. Both got married, bought houses and had babies in their mid-twenties and seem very happy with their lives.
sweet!
Yes, we need this to be an option for the young! 🙂
It’s a path you can take and it’s a pretty good one. You have a much better chance of being secure and building wealth if two of you work together. The grass looks greener, but is it?
If the economy were better and the cost of higher education not so steep, this path might be taken more often. It’s hard for a young person to find a job that can pay the rent (at least here in NYC), and even if the salary is good, school loans can cost as much as a home mortgage. It’s hard to commit to take care of someone else when you can’t take care of yourself.
The idea is to pool your resources. You’re far more likely to build wealth and security if you work together.
If your sister sacrificed her education for the sake of her husband’s ego – that isn’t love, it’s manipulation, and it’s living with a man with a child’s ego. I believe we all have a duty to be the very best version of ourselves on this planet. True love is something that should enhance and assist that, not suppress it in some way. I would hate for young women to read your post and think that this is the way it has to be in order to maintain a relationship. It’s not, unless, of course, you are a woman living (say) in Afghanistan, in which case your life might depend on you kowtowing to your husband’s ego.
I wouldn’t have made that decision! And she didn’t even ask his opinion, so I can’t blame him. Maybe she was afraid of taking the challenge. t also had a boss who did not run for elective office because her husband had run for judge and lost. She had that same loving type of nature as my sister, but then maybe it’s fear of failure.
In fact, my sister’s sun is at 4 degrees Taurus and mine is 2 degrees Scorpio. When we were young, I thought she was too materialistic and she thought i was too philosophical. Somehow we each grew more like the other and as adults became the best of friends. Still, our versions of childhood are completely different, and I would not have made any of her choices, such as career, where to live, partner, etc. and she feels the same way about mine.
My friend would say true love instinctively puts their beloved first. I don’t know if it’s true or not… it does sound incredibly sweet through. I don’t fear deep commitment. I crave it, I love the feeling and security and familiarity of it. I just want it with the right person, a person appreciative and wanting of what I have to give. I know that I would still need some space and room to have interests and a bit of a life of my own too. I don’t think just because you fall in love suddenly your entire life focuses on the other person… it sounds to me a dangerous and unbalanced way to live.
When you get it right, it really is a complete thing. That “you complete me” line is real, in my experience., and I also see it by observation.
Like that couple married 65 years that died withing hours of each other.
If you actually do become one, then you become one and it’s hard not to notice it.
What’s upsetting is that kids aren’t taught this – to be open to it. “Marry after 30” is very bad advice – I’m sorry to say.
I don’t mean it can’t be good after that age, but if you grow up thinking that, you’re very likely to miss the one for you.
Don’t take my word for it though. Any old lady can tell you this. It’s why so many of us from these generations, go back and find the partner who was meant for us all along.
As a courtesy, I want to put this out here, primarily for young people who might see it. If you find you love at 20 years old, then you find your love at 20 years old.
Don’t think about America. Look around world and you’ll see what I’m saying. Jupiter.
~~
I am really not talking to people who don’t want to marry. I am talking to people like me who DO want to marry. If you are like this, your true partner is surely like this as well so if you find him or her – exit ramp, okay?
It’s so freakin’ satisfying and no one tells kids this anymore. It’s very unfair to them, I think. So many hearts yearn for the heart that’s matched to their own.
It’s the only kind of marriage I want, deep abiding love and devotion FOREVER 🙂
I am inexperienced (like completely) and in my 20s but this is what I want, I think it’s important and possible despite the current climate out there.
7H Libra Moon
9H Juno in Scorpio
3 planets in 10H Capricorn
3 planets in 8H Libra
…
and the kicker: Venus square Saturn ha!
This is EXACTLY what I’ve been exploring with Venus Rx. Once it conjuncted T Pluto, it also conjuncted my MC, and T Jupiter is on my IC.
I think it boils down to two main issues for myself; one is old familial patterns that are still hanging onto me, that I simply don’t want anymore. I was a hermit for the past while, and I started looking deeply at my nominal fear of commitment. (used to be worse, thank goodness for therapy) I do not consider it a big issue anymore but its still there, lurking in the background, waiting to be released.
Also, I did not grow up in a loving household (an abusive one) and I was never shown love, never given it. So…I could either see abuse as love, but as luck would have it, in my chart, I have Venus in Leo in the 5h squaring Neptune in the 7th, Yes, looking for soul make territory, imagines of romantic love one only sees on screen (or very, very few real life couples). T Pluto conjunct my Moon and T Saturn squaring my Venus (5th), all the while going through the 7th, has sobered me up.
I simply had the wrong notions about love. When there are no role models, you look to society (or the movies, books in this case). I simply did not know how to choose an appropriate partner for myself. It was falling into relationships quickly without the vetting (and if red flags were shown, either didn’t know how to spot, or ignored them. None of my previous partners were horrible, abusive, etc…just not compatible on a long term level. Coincided with my belief that no one will stick around, anyway.
I have always been willing to give; I grew up without love and I never wanted any of my partners to feel unloved. But Saturns’ 7th house presence for the past year, especially, has sobered me up – woke me to a new reality, to the point I wonder if I’ll ever find that Venus in Leo, venus in fire again. I almost feel flatlined when it comes to romance, currently. Jupiter goes into my 5th in late July, and by August it’ll be conjunct my Venus in the 5th. Counting down the days till that…hopefully! feeling good.
I used to fear committment – due to an inability to trust. Likely an offshoot from one of my parents being a cheat and me witnessing it over the years from a young age. Hard to believe in true committment. Also working for years in male centric industries – seeing it first hand.
However, now I am becoming desensitised. I put all my trust into another person and he did me wrong also and so now I know and am no longer afraid. I do not have expectations and have been practising hard the art of acceptance. The person I put all my trust into – when we got together I had expressed my cynicism about committment and staying together in this day and age, he countered by saying that people have to work at it and make an effort. True. But when it got too hard I was the one who put in the effort and he was the one who ran away. Go figure that one out.
I guess I’ll have to accept being alone again for awhile.
I want to marry one person for life. That is absolutely what I want. If I marry I will fully commit. However the other person is not within my control – whether they will be in it for the long haul…. only time will ever tell.
My experiences have been like Curious Wanderer’s. I’ve loved deeply and completely but I’ve loved men who did not love me like that back. I agree with Elsa that young people are disadvantaged in not getting this message. My teenage daughters have no idea what love looks like or that it is even possible. I’m afraid I can’t be a role model or teach them this concept because I don’t know what it looks like either and at the age of 50 and single for 10 years I’m not so sure it’s possible….
Your teenage daughters have a lot of company. It’s an awful situation. I am going to continue to try to pitch in, every chance I get, in any way possible.
It is AMAZING how bad this it. It’s as if our society has killed a lobe of our children’s brains. Because I’ll tell you something, I know for sure…
There are a good number of us who want nothing but to fall in love and be partnered. I felt like this since I was 7 years old. My husband felt the same. We both YEARNED for this and I think it’s common. It’s *natural*. But now we thwart our kids in their natural development…we just can’t stay out of it, when that’s exactly what we should do.
So I meet people 21 years old – with this yearning – men and women – more men then women, actually, if we’re talking young 20’s, and they cannot find support for these feelings, anywhere.
It’s changing though…for the reasons I go on about all the times on the boards.
I’d say in 20 years like blip will be on it’s way out. Further, it will be meaningless in the scheme of things.
I don’t think people comprehend how short the lifespan of the hula hoop really is. Or the slinky, as much as I loved those!
Elsa, I do think that continually putting someone else’s happiness ahead of your own is a recipe for resentment and disaster. For me, it’s not the key ingredient in the recipe of love. From time to time, it might work – for example; hubby wants his family over for the weekend, but I want to do shopping and chores. In that instance, I would probably sacrifice my plans. But if I was habitually sacrificing what I wanted to do all the time, resentment would build over time.
Putting someone else’s happiness before your own can only work from time to time, and (being part of the Uranus in libra generation) only work if it’s a two way street.
I disagree. If you deeply love someone, it is exactly what you do.
I can’t be happy if my husband is miserable – we’re married! We’re together, we’re not separate and everything that happens to me, happens to him.
When you’re married (in my world), it’s no longer about you. You’ve given yourself to your partner, and from that point forward there is no “you” there is two of you, together.
Again, I realize it’s not for everyone. But there are many of us, who have a deep yearning for this, exactly. To become one, with another.
If you actually do that, and understand that – both parties, willing and able – there can be no disaster.
I think you’re right, Elsa. I was born just as feminism was gaining traction. I think this had to happen (feminism), but it’s a pendulum. The extreme, and the message I’ve lived with, is that I’m strong and confident and don’t need to be married to be fulfilled. (Every one of the women on my mom’s side through the past 5 generations was divorced and had their own business, so it was a personal message.) I’m almost 45 and it’s too extreme. We’re hard-wired to love someone. Even me. I’m really glad you’re talking about this. Looking back, it’s ok, and even preferable to marry in your 20’s. I would have kicked myself in my 20’s to say that, but it’s true.
belle, I think some are slowly coming to this realization. If we weren’t so attached to being right all the time, if would be easier to correct.
I don’t know of any, and I am in my twenties. Not a single one. Most of the women are gold diggers. Some of them are even lesbians pretending otherwise for sake of using the men.
The men in my generation? Well, they were raised by feminists to be little boys who never grow up. Whether they’re “nice guys,” or “bad boys.” Either way, American men are undesirable. If I get to marry, he will not be an American, he will be Asian, from Asia. (And, I have a Sagittarius Juno, so it’s backed in the astrology that I will not marry an American.)
Even the guys who turned out okay despite all of the bad feminist-type influences since birth… Then, there’s the other problems. I did not take care of myself, and make good decisions to marry someone who wrecked himself, and/or has a history of making terrible decisions. Plus, Buddhism does not mix with the religions almost all Americans are of. Nor does Monarchism sit well with Republicans, Democrats, etc. It is guaranteed I could not end up with an American. (And, I am incredibly out of touch with this country, which creates a lot of social problems. I really belong in another country.)
What I’ve seen… Marriages of convenience all over. Not about love. Not about attraction even! Just… Convenience. The best ones are faking it. Some of them are good at it, and can confuse even me until I step back from their direct influence and take a good look… Or… lol Until they slip up. One was getting me pretty confused years after her blatantly bad motive marriage start. Then, she slipped up, and directly admitted that the real reason is money! I didn’t even expect it! I thought it was just a racism thing! Right after, she severed ties, and was letting all know she was mad at me, but refused to talk about it, to avoid more slip ups to keep her lie-based marriage from ending over absent-mindedly blurting out hints, and admissions.
Do I fear such a thing? No. I have Pluto+Venus in Scorpio in my Second House. So, I’m the opposite of fearing deep commitment. I hold onto people from one life to the next, and be held onto by them, too. Pluto (and everything it speaks of) is a very big influence in my life, and an important subject of study.
Pain, to me, is just part of the game, part of the process, the experience. Sometimes things don’t work out. Sometimes you get hurt. Those feelings are telling you that things aren’t as you want, and telling you not to repeat those mistakes, and to make changes towards a life more to your preference. We hurt for a reason. It is an important evolution meant to guide us on the right path towards higher success in life.
When people avoid the pain… By running away from possible triggers, or not thinking about things, or whatever other way of running away. They are not learning. They are not progressing. They are not living the lives they want. They are failing at everything. It is very important that we embrace our feelings, and Pluto.
If I marry one person for life… It’ll mean I met the right person, and I’ll be in love, and happy. And, I’ll get to move on to my goals of having children, and raisin them, and going onto grand-parenting… And, be a great-grandparent before I die. I’ll have achieved success, and victory over those who want me to fail, and have a life of lonely suffering. To me, this is exactly what I want is a loving, devoted husband, for the rest of our lives.
I am not swayed. I am not put off by other peoples’ misfortunes, and mistakes, or by my own past failures. I don’t think that just because so-n-so is a screw up who can’t get it right that I’m doomed. And, I don’t think that just because this, or that boyfriend never went anywhere that none ever will.
Faith, you see, is very important. We have to have faith in ourselves, future, Fate, the world at large. I’m not talking unrealistic optimism. I’m talking faith that everything is going as it should, and that you get what you deserve, when it’s time to be gotten. Faith that living in hard times doesn’t mean your personal story will have a bad ending. Faith that good things will eventually come to those making the right decisions. You likely get the idea. Faith. Confidence. Assurance.
Now… “Optimists…” Those people don’t have faith. They have to focus only on positive things, or they can’t hope. If they embrace the full of reality, they’re in trouble. So, they don’t like realists, and they are not true optimists, and annoy the Hell out of me.
Anyways, because we live in dark times, most people don’t have faith. So, they’re making a lot of desperate mistakes they will regret later, if not already in regret before even implementing the ideas…
Faith seems to be an issue you had on your mind, as it is the determining factor in what you asked. Those without faith make a lot of bad assumptions, and guesses… “Oh, well, my mom couldn’t have a happy marriage, so I won’t be able to either.” You get the idea. Stuff that is illogical, and not based off actual odds.
Partly caused by being stuck in the past, back when there were fewer opportunities. People are mentally in a place of scarcity, while the reality around them is a time of plenty, and opportunity.
Or, at least, it was. In recent years years, opportunities via the internet are being deliberately removed. It’s no longer easy to meet people, let alone people you like, let alone ones from other countries. But, it used to not only be easy, but regularly occur. Because the internet… Was a great invention freeing us of being limited to just knowing people directly, physically around us. It greatly widened the odds of success in meeting the right person. It’s a shame it’s been taken away. Think of all the happiness that would have eventually come after people adapted, and stopped thinking like they could only know Dave from accounting, or Paul from calculus…
Hopefully, freedom will come back online at some point. I really wanted that to be the future, for people to adapt to it, and… Find love, and happiness on average. Think of how much better the world would be. But, that clearly doesn’t sit well with evil people who want everyone but themselves (and sometimes even themselves) to suffer. And, to people who want to control that possibility to profit off it.
This is what we get for eliminating execution of criminals… They’re rampant, and they ruin good things.
Venus Conjunct Pluto is a beautiful thing. Regardless of the Sign, or Housing. It always means that lessons are being learned, and spiritual progression is taking place, directly in one of the most important areas in life. Love, and relationships. And, it indicates love that surpasses death, with the souls involved continuing to grow through eachother, and sometimes together as a pair, or a group.
I just don’t understand how anyone could fear it. So, they’ve made mistakes, and they make mistakes. And, there will be consequences. But, what’s to fear? Growing up as a soul? Or, is it the pain we experience either way, as it’s a simple part of life unavoidable? Perhaps many with issue to it are the sort prone to being high on some drug, or another to numb any possible life pains… Well, they’re going to have to sober up, and grow up sometime. If you put off a Pluto lesson now, it will just keep cropping up, from one life to the next, until you learn it. And, it’s always going to hurt. So, the sooner it’s learned, the less pain you’ll experience.
I ramble about these topics. :-/
This is an important area of study for me.