“Elsa, please write something about the people who follow, enable and support psychopaths. What do their charts show. There are those who lie and those who lie to support the liar. Sycophants?”
Libra Rising on Born That Way: Talent & Psychopathy
Complicated question! Use of the word, “follow”, suggests you’re talking about online entities here. People who follow and like, psychopaths?
Here are a few possibilities:
- They may not know the person is a psychopath. Such a thing may have never crossed their mind.
- The person may be popular in their area of interest or in their friend group so they want keep up with them.
- They may follow because they’re studying them or have a love/hate thing going.
- They may be looking for edgy ideas, etc.
But I think you’re asking something deeper.
Some psychopaths are highly charismatic. This is part of the reason why:
It’s said, we can’t elect decent people to office, because decent people won’t stand there and lie; Anyone who tells the truth, won’t be elected! People want that comforting lie.
Jack Nicholson’s line in. “A Few Good Men”, is true. “You can’t handle the truth!” This one reason to adore a psychopath. They essentially keep you high!
That’s the most common situation, but in another case, the person may work for a psychopath. It’s their job to cover them. They may have gotten into the situation, knowingly or otherwise, but this explains their behavior. Real life examples?
I’ve had a number of clients who were right hand man/woman to someone in power. They were all highly paid. Most of them had some misgivings about what they were doing. In fact, I witnessed one of them leave her position for an easier, cleaner life. She took a 80% pay cut in the process.
I had another who was a psychopath herself. She had connived her way into her position with the goal of consuming her boss so they she might take his place.
I’m sketching out these scenarios to illustrate there are different reasons and different levels of involvement. The commonality is these people are attracted to power; worldly power, to be more specific. They’ve been seduced. They’re mesmerized and they want to keep it that way. No 80% haircut, see?
I don’t think it’s possible to see this propensity in a chart because there are too many variables. You might have a Neptunian type, deluding themselves. You might have a Plutonian, attracted to taboo. You may have a Uranian who thinks rules are for idiots. You may also have an entirely average person who is having a transit that brings them into contact with this world.
While you can’t look at a chart and say, this person will align with a psychopath, I do think it’s possible to discern their motive, if this information were of use for some reason.
Why do you think people admire and defend psychopaths?
I think psychopaths tend to project confidence… Because they are not bothered by things normal people are bothered by. It doesn’t matter what he says as long as he does it with confidence…then you end up feeling like he is the guy that knows what he’s doing and what he’s talking about. Listen to him, it’s so simple, the problem is x, the solution is y! And, politically, that’s allowed and economically, corporately that’s allowed here because there’s really no personal responsibility attached to political or corporate decisions. It’s like these positions are tailor made specifically for psychopaths.
Who cares if what they say is true? I mean it nearly never is! On the surface, very few so it seems.
They are also good at ppointing the finger at whoever and whatever for their personal gain, and who would really like to hear that it’s them that’s the problem and it’s them that need to do something about it? Being told it’s your neighbour that’s the problem is a lot easier to swallow! Phew, it’s not me it’s them…
The psychopath is delusional hence the ability to be in a position of 100% confidence. Such a person does not register that they are “lying” due to the totality of the delusion. It’s the totality of delusional belief that provides the sense of power and is so seductive. But to maintain this, it’s necessary to constantly project anything that threatens to shatter the delusion externally onto and into an other. A full time job as the core wounding that creates this situation is immense, an inner death or annihilation of the true self has occurred, there’s no way back for one so damaged. If a delusional person is the one who gains power and popular support within a group then it suggests that the tendency towards delusion (ie., significant levels of trauma to the identity) is widespread, and people feel more safe and secure existing within a delusional system than working their way back to the truth (which would be painful and involve experiencing original vulnerability). The more individual people work towards their own truth internally, face their pain, and dismantle their conditioned identifications, the more the delusional system falls apart. As individual units, cell by cell, we could change this traumatic paradigm forever.
i agree with Elsa, psychopaths are conscious they are cruel and know what they are doing. They just wont tell you their agenda, because they think they are clever and intelligent. but many psychopaths are actually low IQ or average. Maybe you mean for example, someone like Osama Bin Laden who is Pisces sun/ with Pisces Venus? which is grounds for delusion due to his placements? (the neptunian type) I think personally he knew what he was doing because he grew up to that belief and it centered around murder and religion. Is it delusional to go and order kills? Knowing he’s decimatating innocent human lives? All in the name of whatever he wants to beleive in for his agenda? Ok. let’s say for example Hitler. (the venusian type) He’s perfect example. Psychopathy in the largest scale. He projected the idea of perfect species, is that delusional? That’s more deep hate, and borne into something larger that fed his hate. There’s no love in murdering for a cause. Because it’s feeding the hate inside. While others, who are being fed for a common goal are spurred on, because their hate grew too, maybe from hardship but it’s still a common goal towards murdering people no matter how its justified. what they do have in common is charisma. Because to lead a group of peoples takes a strong charisma. Having strong charisma takes no social anxiety and no shame too; they can deflect emotions and be evacise.
“The psychopath is delusional hence the ability to be in a position of 100% confidence. Such a person does not register that they are “lying” due to the totality of the delusion. ”
Oh my! I wholeheartedly disagree with this. I have been around psychopaths since the day I was born. They know exactly what they are doing. Further, they enjoy it, greatly.
Oh well.
I agree Elsa. My life experiences have given me the ability to have discernment. I don’t think everyone has the ability to discern personalities or “spirits”.
There is no discernment needed in my case. I’m sitting at the table, listening to the types, plot and laugh and mock, the people they are targeting or playing with. There is no confusion whatsoever as to what’s going on.
We’re talking at cross purposes because you are registering what I’m describing as if it is conscious, ie. can be observed from outside. Whereas I’m talking about the unconscious workings of the mind. A person with a delusional psychic core is not necessarily delusional on the surface, their mind is structured to keep that part deeply hidden but it still pulls the strings so to speak. It’s hard to articulate but it’s important to clarify that delusional here refers to what’s unconscious.
I believe I do understand. I just don’t think this behavior is subconscious, nor do I think a psychopath is delusional.
Psychopathy is the absence of conscience. Really, that the whole definition. So if you’re in the room with someone who lacks a conscience, the proof of such is easily observable.
“I am going to do X to Y; this horrible thing that will cause harm, because I can and it’s fun.”
I think it’s that simple, but acknowledge you have a different view. I also wonder if your view would change if you take my place and witness what I have.
the real story of working with people who are psychopaths, is very true, people do it for “money” because it’s attractive to live high in life and have fancy cars, a nice big home, all the food and restaurants you can go to eat, and live life to the fullest, travel anywhere. It’s everywhere, but sometimes, i see young men go into mafia type jobs or drug cartel following working for them in poorer countries where there are no jobs, no decent work for the average young man to help create a family. And loneliness kills many of these and they want a good life and family. So they enter the mafia type jobs or criminal jobs. Its an article i read somewhere too where a Texas University professor figured out the cause and why it grew in especially in mexico to south american countries. Where are the jobs for them? it all starts at the foundation and works its way up.
I remember reading Plato’s philosphy that if every man were to have a father that worked a certain job, such like a bakery or mechanic, or architect or carpentry, butcher, ect, he can take on the role, work of the father, as it passed on. In such a society, where it’s so degraded there’s no trade to work on to give your sons a proper training in life. Many of those classic philosophers really knew what they were saying. but in society that has degraded due to the improper government greed, and no care for the inner workers of society, it has degenerated to a broken system.
of course, even for women, to give their daughters training, in life, also rings true. In today’s society a father too can give tips to both their sons and daughters but of course, in feminine sense she should take from her mother. As later in life a daughter needs her mother. just as much as a son needs their father.
In the Juvie story in my book, my father is playing games with the people in there.. it’s very clear. It’s known (by the family), and the public (the victims) are clueless. They found out when I explained it to them.
It’s a textbook example. Why is he doing it? To me? To them? Because he can.
It’s no different than pulling out your penis to take a piss, because you can. It’s that straightforward.
My God, I have decades of firsthand, front row experience with this. I know what I’m talking about.
they mesmerize thats why millions vote for them over and over. I cant think of a mass of people (country) that does not other than maybe Switzerland. Mini psychopaths aspire to what the big ones are preaching
To be clear, I’m saying the roots of psychopathic behaviour are within the unconscious. That there is a delusional structure to the personality within the unconscious due to early trauma. It’s not rocket science people!
hi sophiab.
it is my understanding that you speak from a cause perspective whereas Elsa is referring to the manifestation of.
so, broken personalities. I’m just not 100% sure it can only manifest from (early) trauma. could it be neurological/genetically wired too? never looked into it besides from a psychology prism.
I think they are sheep and find safety in numbers. Just last night I was looking up a certain psychic channeler after coming upon one of his recent videos. I used to watch him maybe a decade ago when he did astrology, but when he began talking about a group of beings that spoke to him, I checked out. Well, channeling is much more popular now, and after seeing his last video I decided to look up his Youtube and follow him, but then I saw a warning video about him being “dark” and sucking people’s energy up. I decided to give that a look. Well, a wild haired woman who was obviously riled up about this guy laid out her case very clearly, and also mentioned another woman channeler (one who laughs like the Mom in “That 70’s Show”) and called her demonic.
She was getting dozens of responses of people saying she was evil for speaking badly about them, and that they refused to listen to her video because they were already sure he was good and she was bad, etc.
I listened to the whole thing and you know, I think she may have had a point. Several good points.
But I saw there that most people won’t even hear out the opposing argument anymore. Their mind is made up. Look at Trump derangement syndrome. Most anti Trumpers hate him for things that he never did. They refuse to believe he used to have his secretary track down hard luck stories that appeared in the paper and bless them with a new car, or money to pay off their home, give them a job, or that he let a homeless black ex drug addict stay in one of his hotels for over a decade, with three room service meals a day, as long as she stayed clean off of drugs. They just have so much ego into their viewpoint. I think it is due to the lack of two parent homes, where both parents had differing viewpoints and debates were had peacefully and respectfully. Even with yelling and screaming, but at least debates were had. Once you have a legal system set up where one side gets completely shut down and owes a ton of money for 18 years for the wellbeing of a child they rarely get to see, it tells people that there is no morality or decency needed when there is a difference of opinion. One just has to have a better lawyer to get their way. Kids since 1970 have mostly witnessed their parents unjustly treated by the state, and they think that is normal. That is my take on it.
Identifying a psychopath is very tricky business because they are very, very good at lying, and if you have mutual connections, they will create a web of lies among those people that it will be very difficult to untangle. I had a friend for far too long that fit this description. It took me a long, long time to understand what I was enabling with this friendship.
If you are asked to go along with anything that you are intrinsically uncomfortable with, an absolute internal ‘no’, that’s a good sign you are dealing with someone you should drop, psychopathy or no. That can be challenging when one feels lonely, but the loneliness is much easier to deal with than the fallout, believe me. As a service oriented person, it was a very hard lesson for me to learn. But I’m glad I did. Real friends will get you though. even if you find them in a book or on a website or app.
No one deserves to be gaslit and abused into infinity, and with these folks, sociopaths too, and there are many of them, that’s all there is to it. Some can pretend to feel differently, but it’s never going to be true. Walk away. run, if you have to. It is not ‘normal’ and it is not ok.
Im disappointed. I thought this was an astrology forum? I think all of the basic planets used in astrology are decent and want us to live decent lives. Im not that advanced an astrologer but in most cases of messed up personalities. its usually a bad placement with an asteroid like Chiron and Lilith that messes people up. Theres a few asteroids that work on greed as well. The planet between Mars and Jupiter is theorized to be the one condemned in the Bible for their misdeeds, it was the planet of the stones of fire that Lucifer ruled upon. They must have tried to blow it up to get rid of it, only for it to come into orbit as evil asteroids
Everytime we get Chiron, we get sick, got Covid, or we end up in the ER for example. I know another person who gets suicidal same time every year past few years cause of his Chiron conjunction. Chiron is just nasty and horrible. It can activate greed if you feel like youve been deprived and wounded in the past. Would be great if Chiron didnt exist?
Lilith is a sly, devious placement too. Ceres, Juno, Vesta, Pallas and Eros are the rest.
There is fixed stars above us that drag us into psychopathic stories and paths as well.
The basic most fundamental reason “Why Do People Admire & Defend Psychopaths” is because people/the public and psychopaths/the ruling class have evolved together in a symbiotic manner over millennia — read the free scholarly essay The 2 Married Pink Elephants In The Historical Room at https://www.rolf-hefti.com/covid-19-coronavirus.html
THAT reality also explains the craziness of the world, etc.
“First the truth will upset you, but then it will set you free.” — Matt Landman, independent filmmaker
I actually don’t agree on the psychopath definition here. Psychopaths in my understanding have been kind of cultified and what the condition actually means is that they don’t make a connection to others in their brain. The only reason the condition is mythologised so is that it has intentionally been done so by grifters like Robert Hare. The research into psychopathy is incredibly bad mostly and there isn’t a condition that wouldn’t be reflected badly if it wasn’t exclusively studied in prisons.
Also, neurotypicals don’t like to look at a lot of those that do truly dreadful things and realise those people did things because of features they also have, it’s like looking in a mirror. Like, to neurotypicals empathy and emotion is always good, and it can never be used to do things like rape.
The thing is with psychopaths is that without the ability to connect with others they are less likely to care enough to attempt to manipulate them. At least in relation to my understanding of the situation from a blogger I closely follow on this subject, allegedly a diagnosed psychopath.
Of the real troublemakers though. The people with abusive behaviours on the borderline/ narcissism axis. I think their enablers tend to be people whom are able to convince themselves of a ridiculous fantasy in opposition to reality. This often comes with a lot of Pisces placements I have found and squares to that placement.
When I think of psychopaths (and abusive people in general), they usually have a test event or trial run to see how far they can go. The receiver or witness kind of stands with disbelief or denial. They can’t believe what they had seen, or they give the person the benefit of the doubt, and then the psychopathic behavior quickly escalates. On top of it, psychopaths can be extremely charming and they seem to have a way of making people feel good (and while they snatch whatever it is they want from under their feet). When they are disputed (usually be someone like the kid who says the emperor has no clothes, like in that fable), they know many ways to keep people in their place and others too afraid to speak up. It’s like they have a strong power but for whatever reason, decided to use it for their own selfish means.
(My Moon and Pluto conjunct in Libra, sexile Neptune in Sagittarius… Yeah, I keep a careful eye on things and let the universe fill in the rest, except I got burned enough to know when to keep silent and slowly back away from a psychopath).