I once heard of a woman who was disliked because when she attended a large family gathering with her boyfriend, she went outside to be with the men rather than staying in the kitchen with the women. This ran counter to the culture of the family. The men resented her presence and the women hated her and I thought it was an interesting puzzle.
Innately polite due the Libra in my chart and also having a strong Jupitarian nature (I go native fast), I tended to think the gal should have bucked it up and blended with the family for the day. But then I heard the women were catty gossipy types. Uh oh.
At that point, I sided with the woman, explaining I’d rather shoot myself in the head then sit in a kitchen and listen to women talk about other women who they would pretend to be friends with the next day. I mean, I don’t care who likes me or what the fallout, I just would not be able to stomach this. I have a Jupiter flavored Moon.and like women who are at least somewhat righteous. What about you?
How would you have felt in that kitchen and where is your Moon?
well, as a pisces who used to want to be an anthropologist I would have felt as you do but gone with the women. I can go native for the moment in order to suss out strange cultures. 😉 I’d want to know what made those bitches tick and tock.
ah, moon capricorn– aspecting pisces sun/mercury and square venus: even though it wouldn’t be what I WANT per se, I’d have had the skills to make it work to my benefit.
Mine’s in Aquarius and I accept all sorts of quirks in my friends and acquaintances – but I’d also rather not hang with whiny women. I think I can stand almost anything but catty gossiping women. My SO and I met one of my friends who came to talk to me when we met her at a bar one night – she kind of pulled me aside and whispered and I thought that was so rude to leave my SO out of the conversation. If she had something private to tell me she could have called me the next day. I’ve never had a lot of women friends and the ones I’ve had usually hurt me some way. I like women and I always enjoy making friends with them, but it just never seems to gel. I guess I’m a man’s woman. On Thanksgiving this year I did stay with his family (all sisters) when he went out to get some fresh air, but I like his family so it wasn’t uncomfortable.
Dammit Elsa that apple pie looks scrumptious..guess you just baked that while spinning plates holding class and feeding the astro-needy with lines to get em thinking.. what a cook you are! Happy weekend, love from an Aries Moon/Jupiter..happy with everyone in my kitchen but in that situation I’d get quieter and busier and gradually work my way out of the door with an inane grin on my face..doh!
I’m a Sag Moon, but I would have been polite, stayed in the kitchen and suffocated to death. Ha.
dang, Lynne– I didn’t notice it was an apple pie! I assumed it was cherry without looking closer: cherry pies have lattice tops; apple pies have decorative cutouts. easy to see what you expect to see based on appearances, eh?
and LC– interesting that, the perspective of gender segregation. I’ve never liked that either. it seems a lot like not having foods touching on your plate: something you supposedly get over after childhood.
I have a Jupiter flavored moon too. I wonder how come nobody mentioned expediency yet… She had to get through that evening, I would have done it hopefully without pissing too many people off (aka making myself too uncomfortable). I would have been uncomfortable with either. I don’t like catty women (who gossip about people I don’t know about) and I feel uncomfortable with men hell bent on having guys time. I would have just stood to the side, gone out by myself, or stolen some of the food they were making. Imagine how annoying it would have been when the women are relegated to the drawing room and the men go smoke and play pool like in Sabrina.
Hard to get more tasty than a Jupiter flavored Moon, imho.
Big Fat Aquarius Moon 2nd house (with Jup)- i like staying in the kitchen with the women (even if they are bitches)… and i would think that the woman who goes out with the men at what is obviously a traditional gathering 1. should not be trusted 2. is not very smart (if she is trying to be accepted) 3. did i say should not be trusted?
How awkward for that lady! I probably would have tried to get along in the kitchen and been subtly sarcastic about their conversation (if it was mean and gossipy). Virgo moon, haha.
Also, if I didn’t get along with his family, what would holidays be like after you’re married? It would make me think about the relationship, that’s for sure. But then, I don’t know the context.
LC, that is bizarre. What was the reason behind the segregation? Tradition?
I would have been in the kitchen with the women or else in the car waiting, or maybe even calling a cab if the women in the kitchen were that unbearable, because the chick who freezes out the other women to go and stand outside and hang with the dudes is just not the kind of woman that I want to be, not sober anyway.
come on ladies… nobody would trust the woman outside with the men… she is offering herself up as the lone egg in the bowl of sperm…
Actually this women is exceedingly masculine. Don’t know if that would change anyone’s judgment of her.
I looked at the question again, you ask how I would have felt in the kitchen and where is my moon, so let me answer as asked…my moon is in Leo and how I would have felt in that kitchen is pissed off if there were all doing that Catty thing because although I am a lion in the kitchen I cannot stand kattiness.
oh goodness, what a visual, aml…
i can see myself ending up trying to do both. sucking it up most of the time with the women, viewing their gossipy chatter intellectually and analytically if possible(gem. moon), but making frequent breaks outside to spend a few minutes regrounding with my guy.
mutable-stuff, i guess. i can adapt for sure, but try to find ways that work for me.
I figure she was damned if she did, damned if she didn’t. she was likely to be hung anyway, might as well have chosen the softer noose.
“it is better to die like a hero than live like an ox in a stall.”
in and out I guess,
virgo moon in the 5th trine jupiter in the ninth. Guys usually like me… but I can take a hint.. I’d be back in the kitchen in no time… mentally writing their dialog into something amusing.
Well not everyone likes to make pie! And then you hear talking about people who are not there – you know you’re going to be next.
I’d find the one who looks like Shane and ask her if she wants to go smoke a cigarette. I don’t really smoke, but that seems like the best choice and hey Shane grab one of those bottles of wine off the table on our way out the door, come on!
Shane the movie gunfighter?
Ha, no not that Shane, sorry to be unclear. Shane is a woman character on ‘The L Word’ she is this gorgeous woman who is so non-judgmental that she is the one that everyone turns to whenever things are problematic cuz she is so easy to talk to and also a lot of fun. She is also quite the sought after one, and most women end up in bed with her sooner or later, and then they always want more.
ah, I’d be more likely to go with the gunfighter. 😉
if she has the ‘masc thing’ going on- she is even more highly suspect… def. not to be Trusted… it is prob. her m.o.- the way she gets some… so she is out there hanging around the male herd, Pretending to fit in, she may as well drop and roll on her back… you can have masc.energy and still be feminine- she sounds just plain desperate.
Capricorn moon and oft times I’ll feel like i don’t fit in either place yet both crowds will say MZ, don’t leave stay with us. I’ll feel like they are just saying it.
I would have sat with the gossipy ladies but just observe the conversation and not have commented and intermittenly taken cig breaks outside with the fellas. Moon in Libra. I don’t like to be put in anyone’s box.
oh, dear…
i just find a lot of the things woman talk about dreadfully boring. my brain would explode in a normal kitchen, never mind an catty one.
i don’t get the social pressure to segregate in the first place. what kind of family bonding or social glue are you going to get if you cut people into two groups as a matter of course? ick.
so, yeah, i can totally understand why she went out with the men. i wouldn’t even blink and eye. i’m sort of surprised at how judgemental other women can be about this sort of thing….
aquarius moon, sixth house. sextile an aries sun…
Moon in Libra conjunct Pluto….I would have sat in the kitchen, smiling sweetly, listening to their vapid talk, hoping for some secrets to spill…after 5-10 mins of that (about all I could stand, really), I’d go seeking my bf & ask to go, if possible (“get me outta here!! they’re driving me crazy!!” lol). If not possible, I’d probably bounce back and forth between the women and my bf…I can only handle catty women for so long 😉
amen, wyrdling, I’m shocked by the rush to judgement, which is real and out there… but I notice (gratefully) it is a small minority.
Entirely fuck the kitchen and everything about it. I don’t need to be spending time with anyone who judges me unnecessarily or traps me like that. I’d hang out with the family pets or I’d “disappear” when nobody was looking. moon in scorpio conjunct jupiter/pluto, opposite venus.
Ew, no interest in hanging out in that kitchen. Cappy Moon doesn’t like being judged. Besides, my Aries Stellium wants to hang with the guys.
That was always my dilemma, hang with the girls and be bitchy or hang with the boys have a good time. I was never the lone egg wasn’t interested in any of them…I was more the “too bad you aren’t a guy, you are a lot of fun girl”. In Arkansas, I was the only one of the wives that was allowed to join the poker game when my husband hosted. I didn’t try to girlify, but I also didn’t mind serving a round. (The cocktail waitress in me I suppose). I know some of the women talked, but they were going to talk anyway.
Once again, large groups of women are hard to take sometimes. I think I would have suffocated in a sorority house. LOL I lived on a co-ed floor of a co-ed dorm. Haven’t thought of that in years.
Mine’s in Libra.
There are two SILs on my hubby’s side, that can’t stand each other, but form an “alliance of convenience” when they get mad at someone. Right now, that someone is me. 😀
I always hung out with the men, and this really brought out the bad side of these two, because they’re so insecure. One sought out my company in the very beginning, but once she figured out I wasn’t gossipy and backstabbing, she had no use for me. Fine with me! I can’t stand that shit. Women who do nothing but gossip and talk about their kids–nothing drives me battier! (That’s Mercury in Virgo–if I’m going to talk, I want to use my brain!)
Because of my somewhat social Moon (I say somewhat, because I’m not a social butterfly–but not a total loner, either. I have to have people around me, even if I want to go off and hide in my room), being the outcast bugs me, but because these are miserable women, I say, “F it.”
I’m pretty used to not fitting in with “in” crowds, or whatever they’re called, after never fitting in them my entire life.
What would I do…hmm. I’d find a Time magazine and go off by myself to read it. Or I’d go watch a football game. I’ve been doing that for 24 years.
I would have hung with the ladies. Some women feel comfortable around men and getting male attention. I have had interactions with women like this who try to side with the males by thinking that is where they will get what they want. My moon is in Aquarius.
What a horrible family. Why can’t they mingle together? I don’t understand this. My families don’t mingle well between themselves. When each family is with it’s own, sometimes they don’t. I understand the stereotype of men and women being separated however, why keep that going? I say good for her. I try to visit all the groups, when I can (if I’m comfortable enough to not be standing right next to my husband.
This recent Thanksgiving I was stuck in the kitchen (it was at my place). Thankfully the ladies that were there weren’t of the same gossip type as those in the story.
At work there are a lot of women who complain about those who gossip but in reality are gossiping themselves. I usually just stop paying attention until they talk about something else.
I can completely relate to this gal… it’s not about getting with the men, it’s about getting away from these women.
Seriously, you get in the middle of this kitchen henhouse business and if you’re like me, you are dying to get out as soon as possible. Not only are these women talking about crap you have no business hearing about, they take like twenty minutes to get to the goddamned point, if there is one. Bokbok she did this and then I said that, bokbokbok, you just want to shoot yourself in the midst of these hens! Meanwhile, the men are all kicking back and having a beer in their socks; there’s no bokbok there, they’re just kicking back and being accepting, no, oblivious to everything. I will choose oblivious over bokbokbokwhatabitch any old time. That’s how I learned football.
it bothers me greatly that it’s been raised or implied (more than once) that certain people think she’s out to get, not just A man, but somehow ALL the men. gross.
I see no real or implied indication of this at all.
It depends… you can tell if she’s an “egg in the sperm-bowl” gal or a Get Me The Hell Out Of Here gal. From what Elsa said, it’s the latter and girlfriend is to be sympathized with and not condemned.
Aquarian with Gemini Moon here.
I really don’t understand why some have implied she shouldn’t be trusted. Maybe she just didn’t have the same interests as these other women.
I hate nothing more than being around groups of women who sit and gossip and talk about celebrities and clothes/makeup/shoes etc etc. I won’t even TRY to fit in. I don’t see it as being disrespectful. I just see it as being real. I am much more comfortable with men than I am with women, as friends (and don’t think that I’m a super tomboy either, I am definitely feminine)
This pretty much sounds like the situation I was in with both of my ex’s. I was never made to feel uncomfortable though. Both of their families loved me very much and knew that I was just being myself :).
Sag Moon had that situation sorry couldn’ haggle in the kitchen..The incident that made me hit the fan was the We are spending time together.
It was supposed to be a weekend of boating and fishing. He hopped on the boat with the men, I stayed on shore to help the women cook, clean the fish and watch the children..He said this is how we spend time together. That incident did not happen again..We were divorced shortly after that…
I’d try the kitchen for a few, and try the guy area for a few, and when I realized I wasn’t comfortable in one area and not welcome in the other, I’d probably quietly mention to whoever I was with that I’d appreciate an early night, and then I’d go find a quiet corner where I could keep an eye on the catty crew — not to join in, but to see what they’ll be saying about me when I’m gone.
For the few who seem to think the woman in question is not to be trusted because she preferred to hang with men, here’s a shocking idea — some women are just more comfortable with men, not because they’re out to get yours or anyone else’s but because men typically have a different dynamic going on in their group that beats the hell out of sitting in a kitchen gossiping about everyone else. And if it’s a woman who is more “butch”…she may not feel comfortable around women giving her the evil eye for not being girly enough. Give the woman a break already. Don’t assume motives…unless of course you love to sit around gossiping about women and assuming they’re all out to get what’s yours, in which case nobody’s going to convince you differently anyway. Sheesh.
It is hard dealing with a bunch of back stabbing gossips but sometimes you have to “suck it up” for the good of the relationship or future relationships.
As for hanging with the men some women revel in all the male attention and being the only female around. Like the queen bee surrounded by all her drones,lol. Some women can’t relate to other women, I don’t know why I just know that I can and do like both women and men and can relate to all. I am a woman so I relate to other women, not all but most.
miss, I agree. This scenario reminds me of what a friend’s mother said to her once ‘when you marry someone you can also be marrying their family.’
i would have stayed in the kitchen and sucked it up. while i find the hen party stifling i also have no interest in hanging out with a bunch of men who are obviously NOT wanting me around. so…go where is expected and grit my teeth or go where i’m not wanted and disrupt things..?
i’ll be in the kitchen. Capricorn Moon square Pluto and Venus/Mars.
PS. The best way to derail gossip is to ask direct, unexpected questions to the gossipmongers to how THEY feel about something PERSONAL to THEM.
Gosh the article is freaking me out having flashbacks yuk
exhusband yuk…..
Bad Dream
Bad Dream
Stuck on the shore with my fishing pole and new Lures and the women looking at me like I was an Alien…Flashback…Not Good…LOL…LOL..
Wake Up
Wake Up
Scorpio moon. I would have known what the damn family were like from all the other ‘get togethers’ over the year and planned accordingly. The boyfriend would be the one totally looked after and when things took on a turn for the worse in either camp then we would conspiratorially take a break upstairs ……
Virgo moon in 3rd. I’d have sat in a corner of the kitchen and redecorated it in my head.
Aries moon, Jupiter flavored. I would have tried each group for a few minutes, grown impatient, then found a safe place to read in private. (I carry a book with me at all times for just this reason).
I just remembered an incident from years ago…I went to a football game, I was the only woman, and boy, did I get shit because I dared to ask to go!
Hubby (a Cap) said, “Why don’t you stay home with the women?”
Me: “Because they’re fucking boring!” (Disclaimer: I’m talking about this particular group of women, which is just like the one in the OP.)
The women had a field day with this for weeks, (“Oh, HOW could she leave her baby behind?” Blah, blah, blah…) and the men were uncomfortable with a woman being there, at first, but they relaxed when they saw that I wasn’t paying attention to a freaking word they said.
Made me c-c-crazy. Like I said, I’ve been a football freak for 24 years. Why should I have to tamp it down to fit some kind of silly gender stereotype? Ewwwwwww…