If you’ve ever had a hard core Plutonian for a friend, you know how demanding they can be. This is true, even if you’re Plutonian yourself! I can say this for sure because I have been on both sides of this issue.
Heavy Scorpio can obsess about just about anything, all day, all night, into infinity. If they happen to have Libra or emphasis on either of the Mercurial signs, they are going to want to talk about it. And talk about it. And talk about it.
Then there is the rage a person like this can build up. The fury. This energy can be white hot and if you’re the friend, you’re expected to process and contain it. The Plutonian can readily scorch your earth. You may actually want to die after a session with an intense person on a roll.
Now don’t lecture me because I am talking about myself here. I have overwhelmed, damned near consumed a number of people in my life, including other Plutonians. I started to learn about this here:
Why Does Scorpio Freeze You Out, Or Amputate A Relationship?
You just don’t realize you are killing the other person; or you do realize but your pain or rage is so deep, you can’t stop yourself. The person has to cut you off to survive.
I want to look at this from a new angle. Let’s say you’re the friend, who is up to your neck in the Plutonian’s intensity. What’s the best way to let this person know, they’re overwhelming you?
Is it possible to do this without seeing the relationship, severed, one way or the other?
Also, if you’re the Plutonian, do you attempt to track how badly you may be taxing another person?
Boy oh boy you’re reading my mind. I’m the heavy Pluto and wake up to obsessing, but hearing the birds outside my head helps recognize…right, there are beautiful sounds
My longtime friend, a Taurus fixed on the opposite end of the spectrum has weathered my intensity for decades; separate yet understanding how fixed we are I asked for a redo years ago and am so grateful. It’s lonely in the whirlpool, or the cesspool.
That same friend is one of few who could do that.
This post is a godsend, the real-time birdsong from the trees calms my out habit of worrying and the sight of beans, flowers, peas and your insights redirect the Scorpion’s curled sting. Thanks 🙏
I had a very Plutonian mother who regularly “burned the house down” with her fury. She had a Gemini Rising, Mars in Taurus opp her Scorpio Stellium with Mercury and Saturn In Sagittarius. I am a double Scorpio with a Moon Pluto conj so am much less explosive – it takes a LOT to get me to rage. Anyway, she drained me but especially my poor Pisces dad with a Cancer Rising. He cowered at the dinner table when she unleashed her vitriol on him about one thing or another. I excommunicated her one year and was able to fully become myself. I loved my mom as she was not one dimensional- she was amazingly creative a seamstress, a painter and short story writer and a good cook as well as a hostess, unless she had too much to drink- then it was “Whose Afraid of Virginia Wolf” time.
Like Moki said, it’s almost as if you’re reading my mind, too…or tapped into it.
I’ve been on both sides but most recently I’ve learned a lot about my reactions to being on the receiving end. Being on the receiving end, where I also whip around and lash back either in words, deeds, or in my head (and while keeping it in your head can be a good place to let it cool off, you’d better hope it cools off completely), can be equally negative and destructive. I’d much much rather detach, zen out, and put it in its own place and see it for what it is (not an attack on me), rather than throw more fire onto it 🙁
Ditto Allie! I get overly sensitive sometimes but have to drill down for why and even if it’s me and not them, I try to meditate on it to understand myself better.
Yes!
Yes, detaching is a great go-to… Pluto in Virgo 8th house here… I believe an overarching theme I have had in this life, which I have been aware of for awhile, is finding I get very annoyed, even very angry occasionally, when people don’t grant others the basic courtesy they seem to demand from others, which has been a great teacher… or if I have been “giving fair warning” for awhile about boundaries and gently requesting a particular behavior not be continued, but sometimes the earnings are 8gnored and/or the offenses are too great and I will verbally cut a beatch… then feel badly for doing so, regardless of validity.
How I did it was in a letter. She did not reply to me for a year and I never called her during that time or visited. I’m the letter, I told her how she had hurt me, tried to ruin my marriage and drank too much sometimes which did a lot of damage to the family harmony. I don’t regret sending that letter because someone had to tell her. We eventually re united and she had toned things down but ever once in a while her fury would get away from her. *sigh*
In her old age, she was pretty docile though.
I on the other hand have never been amputated by any friends but I have Jupiter in Libra 😊
To the last question: I do.
I try to hold a bit back when I feel I am beginning to overwhelm others.
I have had more than one bad breakup, one of them with a cheating Taurus.
But I know that I can be overwhelming in my rages and emotional sh*tstorms… One of my exes (said Taurus) even called me “A Little Storm” in the beginning – untill it wasn’t actually fun anymore.
I have a lot of Scorpio and Libra/8H planets and your description fits to almost perfection.
What I do not, however, is amputate people unless they’ve REALLY pissed me off. That has happened 5 times in total of 20 years, I think.
If I am sensing someone is starting to feel overwhelmed, I try to take a step back and breathe to let them get some air. I have improved in not taking the pullback too personal. But of they want to calm me before doing it, the best thing is to say something like “What you want to say is important, and I want to listen to it, but I need [insert e.g. breakfast, go for a walk etc] to listen properly and understand what you’re going through.
In other words – validate feelings, validate my experience of the whole thing.
The hard thing is for me to wait and respect their need for *something* before I can open up.
But often the break or pause is actually a benefit, as it lets me think things through and go into my emotions and validate them myself before spilling it all and afterwards do a massive cleanup. Especially in relationships with intimate partners.
My Venus in Scorpio doesn’t like it one bit, and in conjunction with Jupiter and Mercury in Scorpio, I am an emotional blabbermouth that can really send out some high potency fireballs!
Another way I have begun handling my obsessing mind is give it a name.
So, I can now go to my partner to say “Verne is kicking up his gears in my head at the moment. Could you give me a hug to silence him a little bit?”
And then we can talk about my Ferrari Brain in a more impersonal way that doesn’t hurt anyone.
It has really worked wonders for my relationships!
Very smart!
It is! Hopefully others can make use of this method too and avoid the volcano word mouth overwhelm 😀
Great solution Anette. “Verne brain and Ferrari are clear images” I’ll try that for my next episode ✌️
Thanks
Yes very helpful imagery!
I have a very Plutonian friend who gets obsessive about politics —- presidential election years are particularly difficult. She’s also obsessive about certain issues. And while I agree with many of her positions on these matters, I get exhausted listening to her discuss them ad nauseum. Literally—- my gut gets all knotted up.
Many times I’ve pleaded, I don’t want to talk politics—- you know we agree most of the time!
It makes no impression. So last time an election season came round, I told her quietly, that I was going into hermit mode to preserve my sanity. Please don’t call or reach out to me, I’m pulling into my cave to survive the onslaught of politics.
I’m not ending our friendship, I need to preserve my sanity in an insane world.
She was hurt, she missed me, and she honored my “ self imposed” hermit mode. And I felt GREAT RELIEF at not listening to all the blah blah blah…
And when the season passed, I reached out & we still had a friendship.
I’m a Pisces…absolutely hate to hurt anybody’s feelings, so this was a big lesson for me on boundary setting!
👍
Pisces rising here, Sharon. You are lucky your friend
understood and valued you enough to give you the space.
We’ve been friends for over 30 years. We both ran a home day care. She also lives 4 doors away from me.
We’ve had one other very difficult conversation. When she wanted to make a point, she deliberately got louder & more emphatic.
I would withdraw when she did that. It was too much energy. She noticed & would get louder. Eventually she pinned me to the wall with questions, in front of 3 others. Personally, I would prefer people take me to task one on one. I didn’t want to be critical of her in front of others.
What I ended up saying was: you know how some small kids need gentle corrections, or they end up in weeping puddles in the floor—-& others, you need to repeat repeat, get louder, grab their hands to get their attention?
Well… I’m the sensitive kid. You want to get something across to me, no need to get strong & loud—- I’ll hear you. If you do that, your energy pushes at me so hard that I back away as fast as I can to avoid being mowed over.
Her response was ? really? Maybe that’s why my daughter backs away from me. I do it deliberately to get my point across! I really PUSH my energy so they feel it….
And ever since then, she’s stopped doing that to me——with the exception of political stuff.
That’s really her hot button topic!
And I think she’s the kind of person that needed me to get stronger, clearer, in her face with what my response was to her tactics.
She genuinely didn’t understand what was happening & was grateful to know how to more clearly communicate with her more sensitive friends & daughter. The last thing she wanted was for us to pull away!
But it took a lot for me to understand she needed stronger, clearer communication, Instead of the softer way I want & prefer. We each have our ways!
Nothing wrong with different ways of being, but if we don’t know we’re speaking different languages emotionally—- it can be a big challenge!
well weirdly, me and my husband are plutonian but we have heavy sag, jupiterian in nature; and me with my 12th/pisces too i want to hibernate and have space to be myself and recharge. My husband is the same, so it’s like we are fine with intensity because we miss it and then we need a space break/head space and healing time to ourselves in the same company even if we’re in the same room. (which we are all the time basically, unless i leave the country which is soon to be with my parents for couple months) but with them i really need a break!! especially my mother who is scorpio stellium. but she’s able to also want a break and detach and do her own thing. i have them for four months out of a year now, as opposed to half with them & half with my husband, since we hired caretaker and also we have hospice nurses checking in so it relieves us alot and me and my husband can be together 8 months out of a year now. sometimes my son is there with my parents too living with us and almost 3 years (except for 2020 lockdown no flights) my husband went with us to USA back in 2021. too expensive to have all of us back and forth few times a year since we are also funding for caretaking/food/cleaning services too. we definitely felt the uranus taurus pisces saturn money draining alot!! Plus the gardener swindler who stole 10k tops it. >_<
I definitely try to track it and be sensitive to the other person. I think I had to accept that things about me that are attractive to people are also overwhelming at times and not take that personally. But mostly I’ve learned that my intensity has to be channeled into things other than people and relationships, because it will break them.
Well said. I am in total agreement.
Yes Libra Noir art and gardening help so much to siphon off the intensity. Winters are more challenging because I can’t be in the dirt, planting and weeding. I started drawing and writing in the winter they saved me and my marriage and channel the many conversations and imaginings into beauty and humor.
Nice:) That’s that alchemy that I associate with Scorpio. What a thing to master! I admire you.
👍
I’m a Scorpio stellium; Sun, Venus and Jupiter in Scorpio. Sometimes I get too intense about certain subjects. I have Neptune conjunct my Sun and trine my Moon so I think I’m a little bit more sensitive to the other person, but even with that I may need a reminder to note how the other person is feeling. Sometimes my husband will say he needs a break from the conversation, that his nerves are on edge. At first I’ll be offended because I feel like I should be able to speak my thoughts, but then I look at him and see that it is getting to him, so I’ll stop talking and give him space. I think honesty is key. I know I get intense and things like injustices in the world really get to me (Mars in Libra) and I get angry and want to speak out about them, but over the years I’ve learned to rein in my (Mercury in Sagittarius) mouth. I don’t want to stress other people out.
I think you can diplomatically tell the other person that you’re feeling stressed out and need to take a break from the conversation or even that you need to take a break from everything at the moment to de-stress and relax. I have friendships where we’ve taken breaks from each other, then start talking again. I actually need those breaks too, because I’m very empathic and easily get drained by other people.
I think it’s good to remember though (saying in general, not to you) that often that person that might be draining is the supplier of energy to the person they are seemingly draining… maybe that’s why Scorp keeps a tight field, because apart from trust, they can rely on those to fall on because they so often are the lifters… Taurus I think works well w/ Scorp in this sense.
With all due respect, I think draining is draining. At least for me, draining is never uplifting or a source of energy. Then again, I’m not Taurus.
As for how to tell the Scorpio friend, I have no idea if they’re a Scorp, but I have told people to their face that they are not being cool – that their behavior is draining. And I meant it too. It wasnt double-speak. In response, I could have been kicked in the backside but thankfully they agreed with me. Now they’re draining someone else instead, lolz.
I don’t think you understood what I was saying.
No I suppose I don’t. I’m not surprised – I am a bit thick, I apologize! Thanks for the reply & opportunity to chat. I’d best get out of your way now!
supplier or not, that constrictor is not working! too much energy is still too much, when it washes over and supercedes one’s own, it’s detrimental. I say this as *both* the protagonist and recipient of this intensity. All. The. Time. lol!
You’ve just painted the most beautiful Renoir of me. I’m on the giving and receiving end of this and it feels unbelievable because I didn’t know this about myself. Thanks for enlightening me, I feel humbled. I read this at the exact moment (11:53am) of today’s new moon in Taurus at 28deg, I have midheaven 27*16 Taurus. AMEN and Hallelujah-you have set me free!
Moki, as the other one, yes it has been instructive. I also can rail some serious Pluto stuff. I exhaust myself. Last week at a social evening, a woman told me to STOP in caps. I was so embarrassed. I was on a rag and simply could not stop. The rage game eventually kills the rager and alienates all around. Lots to be grateful for in peace, birds, friends, aging, meditation, etc. Yes to bird song and peonies and pink rhodies and simple living.
JT
I figure if I leave with markers of change, there is hope for the history to come with my son’s children catching a break because tutu kept learning 🤞
Completely understand!
I’m amazed how much better I communicate now after painfully realizing i do this myself and learning to cut off my own long winded communication.
It’s a painful maturity and I admit sad that others can’t keep up when I think I’m just getting started ! Ha
I have been stung too many times to remember.
I have learned to keep my distance while sending in love and forgiveness to my intense (aging) Scorpio ♏️
It took me 50 years to figure it out and some days it’s still hard.
I’m there when she needs me but she’s really gone already some days …
“Stuck in a loop of obsessive thinking “
Difficult people… I attract (7H Neptune in ♏️)
distance and time away is the only way I can cope .
Oh this post is so interesting! Ive been on both ends of the issue as well (Stellium in Scorpio)
Lately Ive been driving my family crazy with things!
but yes, I had a friend like this – I felt like I was the only who did tolerate her obsessiveness, I did tolerate until I just couldn’t tolerate any more! The Tower fell and she was very confused and hurt even after I explained what the issue was. She got quite offended and always posts quotes insinuating that she is let down, hurt, etc etc….we both are in avoidance mode yet I dont feel that drain and exhaustion that this friendship caused.