Elsa,
I think I’m not sure how the energy of a planet in tandem with a sign work. For example, Pluto in Sagittarius…. Did it inflame religious extremism or expose it as a destructive sham during these years from 1995 till now? Did it do both? Did it do the former in order to accomplish the latter?
One Of The Regulars
I don’t think Pluto in Sagittarius did any of those things. First, Pluto doesn’t inflame anything – that’s Mars. Pluto energy is yin so I can’t imagine it inflaming anything.
As for “religious extremism” that is your personal perspective overlaid a set of facts and if we’re not sure about that, your characterizing religion as a “destructive sham” tips your hand completely. There are plenty out there who have been empowered (Pluto) and buoyed by their religion (Sagittarius) during these years.
Yes we saw the shadow side / power of religion (and sports and courts and publishing) but so? It does not mean everyone is up to no good.
For clarity, look back at Pluto’s transit through Scorpio. We ate, drank and slept INCEST during those years but this did not mean all parents raped their children. So now we find out that many of our heroes are on drugs but not all of them. Tiger Woods comes to mind, he’s the new OJ Simpson.
Based on what you wrote I would say that Pluto in Sagittarius exposed your fanatic beliefs and if anyone thinks I am being mean to this person… I don’t think so. This is a man who likes a knife and I’m willing to bet he’s happy with this not otherwise.
What did Pluto in Sagittarius mean to you?
“Did it inflame religious extremism or expose it as a destructive sham”
It exposed relgion as the oldest extreme of conspiracy that has lead to people hoping the world will be destroyed to perpetrate a destructive scam. Life after death.
“You must suffer and starve and die in this life, and then when you die you will go to heaven.”
(while the leader in charge says they can talk to God and please hand me all of your money and go kill those people because they are not following our God, they deserve to die)
Sag Moon
I was raised by Jehovah’s witnesses. By the time I was 12 which was around 2001, I rebelled and stopped attending congregation. I think for me Pluto in Sagittarius means religious expression and breaking free from religion and entering spirituality.
Reality – which side are you talkin’ about I wonder?
Hi guys,
“One of the regulars” is me.
Huh? I didn’t say religion is a sham. That’s almost the diametric opposite of what I think and feel, in fact, but this isn’t the place to get into that.
I said “religious extremism” was a “sham” and do believe that. I think that phenomena like Al Qaeda or extreme or violent fundamentalism of any kind is a “sham.” There seemed to be a lot out there of how Pluto exposed the dark side of religious extremism in Sag and that’s what I was referring to.
As for me liking “knives” (your response came at almost the exact minute of todays’s Mars/Saturn square) or you being “mean”…whatever… If I’m your choice for being publicly pilloried this week that’s cool. Have fun.
B
all sides all religion.
The word religion should never be put into the same sentence as God
And you did not ask about god.
The question or idea is religion…
That is all together diiferent..
THERE ARE NO SIDES
US AND THEM PINK FLOYD DID A SONG ABOUT IT.
IT EXPLAINS ABOUT WAR AND WAR IS USUALLY ABOUT RELIGION NOT GOD
B – ah geez. You cannot be “publicaly pilloried” when you’ve not been named now can you?
wtf? You send me a question, specifically asking for my opinion. YOU SPECIFIED I should answer it ANY WAY I like and I complied.
I think you are wrong here. You cannot like my answer but I did nothing wrong.
Okay, I see where I might have misread your comment. I thought you were calling religion a destructive sham??
I just think that “religious extremism” is a subjective perspective… and a judgment. What is extreme is relative…
Pluto in Sag =
Bloating my worst vices to the point where I just have to curtail them. Especially drinking.
Becoming much more tolerant of myself and others, even on religious issues. Expanding my worldview.
And something about publishing that I still don’t quite have a handle on. I’ve been suffering from massive writers block for years. I think it may be that I overinflated my expectations of myself on this score… Only now getting perspective on it.
I am back to say as I’ve had time to mull this – I am mad as fuck.
LOOK. DON’T MAIL ME AND ASK ME WHAT I THINK UNLESS YOU WANT TO KNOW WHAT I FUCKIN’ THINK. AND IF YOU DON’T LIKE WHAT I THINK, DON’T ACT LIKE A BABY.
Frankly, I deserve better – ESPECIALLY from Busted. I would seriously like to slap his ass, I am that mad.
Outside of this, I have confronted him privately (a first) and if he’s not got something nice to say then GET THE FUCK OFF MY BLOG, You who have fed off my energy for years. This was a LOUSY thing you did and basically, it’s like this:
Come up with an apology or eat shit and die.
Not sure if we will really be able to understand what the Pluto in Sag was about for some time – feels like the walls are all beginning to crumble now, that all the failed thought systems and philosophies as they play out on the public stage are falling like a toothpick house. Pluto in Sag helped us see it with clarity, to see that ways of thinking and beliefs had both a very powerful and dark side to them – and with Pluto in Capricorn, all the material structures associated with these ideas seem to be falling apart. Just as you can’t see wind but in the leaves it blows off trees, maybe we won’t be able to see the dark side, the death of whatever thoughts, beliefs, philosophies didn’t pass the test of Pluto until we can see or even relate them to the corresponding material and physical decaying of associated structures we see in this nascent Pluto transit. Based on everything we’ve learned (and that includes by learning what NOT to do) in the Sag transit, it is time to build anew.
oh, dear.
ignoring the comments…
i left church. for good. i thought. and then came back through another route. found a much more solid (for me) sort of way to find meaning in the universe.
and discovered i’m comfortable not having answers or certianties or sureties (which is scarier than it might sound, from my experience. taking a bath in meaningless nihilism was one of the most disturbing experiences of my life.)
Elsa makes a valid point – Pluto in Sag exposed some of the shadow side of religion. Where Busted suggests it exposed religious extremism as a sham…well even conservative Catholicism got its fair shair of exposure of dispicable behavoir from some priests ie. child abuse, yet many other Catholic priest were not doing this.
My point? some extreme behavoirs were exposed from within very ordinary settings.
Pluto in Sag–it meant developing my own set of thought processes out of the influences of other people and also looking inward instead of just absorbing everything around me and changing my spiritual ideas every day! I look at Sag as more self-absorbed and Gemini as more floaty, but I’ve definitely solidified my philosophies a lot more.
oh i’m talking about my merc opp pluto…this is probably too late to comment for me 😛
Caution my definition takes God out of it
please understand I am picking apart origin here
and disecting it.
Religion to me is an organization with rituals
and rules. Religion always attaches the word
followers. (Modern text say there are 5 basic Religions and subcategories within.)
The structures were a way that humans could connect and survive. The earth was a dangerous place and humans were more instinctive.
Then along comes a being life force etc that has a philosphy people follow that philosphy and set of rules. So what happens when the herd faces a different tribe with a different set of rules ?
The tribe could face extinction so the organizers of religion came up with ways to distinquish the different tribes(religions)..
EX.Christians wear a cross or the symbol of a fish etc.
As time went on tribes started to fight over food and land. The organizers asked for money to keep organizing and keep the philosphy going, more rules, more rituals, prayer to give the followers a connection they can not touch. Heaven and Hell
places one can not proove or disprove.
Kings would send knights into battle in the name of religion/God…..
Government has always been part of religion.
Religion fears government and government fears religion. During the last 12 years we experienced an extreme war that many of us did not even know we were part of.
The society is now questioning the motives of both religion and government. Sag (ruled by jupiter) took it to the extreme boundries until it became so huge it exploded
Both have always been extreme, Pluto being hidden was always there its just now we see there is something wrong with the structures and religion.
The rules have to change because like the man behind the curtain the extreme has been exposed..
God didn’t have anything to do with all of this..
Man did. So we are them and they are us.
We want different rules that will start to encompass us and are no longer willing to tolerate any tribe that will kill the herd.
So once again survival and instinct makes us want a new kind of religion.
Well guys..in my mind..just another thought is all.. the thing is that Sag is all about unlicensed self expression..and Pluto is extreme.
Media went mad,internet communication mushroomed, news became live everywhere and “celebrity” exposure spiralled out of control in the quest for leaving no thought or deed uncovered, unreported. I’m buying into it now, by wanting to say my stuff..and sometimes it’s wonderful because people can get so much out of that sharing across the net..but sometimes people forget they’re dealing with real people..not just typing thoughts out.. and sometimes we need to stop and think of the person we’re talking with.. someone giving her time and energy so freely, unselfishly.. and yes we all get something out of an exchange.. but Elsa deserves both respect and credit. From a personal perspective, I never find her thoughts anything other than stimulating, often inspiring.
The other side of the Sag Pluto theme is where you get into analysis paralysis after being burned so bad you overanalyse everything before you say a word.. in fear of unleashing scary stuff.
Sometimes we completely unwittingly light blue touch papers and cannot understand what it’s set off in others.. as one with Pluto exactly on my Desc..I’m familiar with the energy, but in no way on top of it.. just quietly respectful.
Elsa you’re doing a wonderful job and I love being with you now and then when I can check in..thankyou, bless you for all you are and all you give xxx
Personally Sag Pluto sat my ass down on the cushion, got me to meditate regularily and the deep digging and awareness began. And I mean BEGAN – has hardly gotten near the “done” point and won’t until I’m dead and gone.
As for the exposing “religion” I see it as exposing our fanatic beliefs in the “expert is always right” in economics, science, etc. when that isn’t necessarily the best for everyone.
I just read (and now cannot find) a fun article about a study that compared brain scans when someone saw an iconic advertising symbol (eg. nike, apple, mcdonalds, etc.) and religious symbols and the BRAIN RESPONDS THE SAME. So our “brands” are our new religion. I thought that was wonderfully funny.
BRAIN RESPONDS THE SAME. So our “brands” are our new religion. I thought that was wonderfully funny
mudlikesubstance
wow…what a thought..iconic advertising think of all the symbolism in life..
even the symbols we use in astrology..
Its very dangerous for corporations and governments to have this kind of information about us as a human race..It can be used for good or evil..this is why people follow religions etc..
I think the biggest question we face with pluto in capricorn is how do we control the urge of humans to not act corrupt ?
We put someone in charge and eventually there is a scandal the longer they are in power.
Its not 100 % affective
Religion
There whole purpose is to give guidance to the flock.What happens when the members of the flock and leaders of the flock encounter so much evil.
The “expert” we rely on is pushed off the pedestal
or they no longer want to serve because the flock
has gone crazy..
The movie about Moses…Remember how mad moses was
in that movie when he went to the mountain and spoke with the burning bush and received the 10 commandments. He came down from the mountain
and the tribe was worshiping idols etc.
Moses took a break..and he was pretty darn mad
and broke the tablets if I am remembering the right movie.
Satori..Do you blame her…HE HE
To the questioner: You speak of the energy of a planet in tandem with the energy of a sign, and how that works. This is something that just takes years of study, and I am no expert, but I have ideas about it. Re: Pluto specifically, I have seen some books placing Pluto as exalted/own (functioning well) in Scorpio and poorly in Taurus. I can’t remember if it has any terms in Sag.
I think there are just some linguistic disconnects, I tried to write a paragraph about the sham word, and I just found myself going in a circle, so deleted it. I’ll just speak to my own experience:
I learned here today from what Elsa said, pluto might (and probably does) Expose, but it is Mars which Inflames and we best not forget all that. I love that teaching point.
I attained Spiritual Enlightenment during the year 2000, and basically I can say that the truth of how things are, and are not, was ‘exposed’ to me in a very sudden and very thorough manner. So Pluto in sag and everything that went with it at the time was apparently a very positive thing for me personally.
So i guess pluto in sag helped the allowing of my experience (exposed by removing barriers and distractions) “The Divine … Lord” to me … yeah, I saw ‘how it is’ and therefore I guess you could say I fanatically believe in what I saw (felt, experienced, heard, smelled, visualized, etc), but I’ll take that label and wear it, no problemo. Just don’t try to take my experience away, but no worries, cuz no-one could.
Well now. Pluto in Sagittarius seems to have been a period of irrational exuberance. It WAS too good to be true. And now with Pluto in Capricorn, the chickens have come to roost. What is new is Saturn, fresh out of Scorpio. Looking around in Sagittarius, thinking gee, what a mess. The new clean up kid on the block. But like Hercules in the stables, leaving no stone unturned. So, for all the liars and cheats out there, your time has well and truly come. And a rousing cheer from the poor down trodden masses !