I wrote this after a conflict erupted on this blog some months ago but this story is relevant always.
I have always been upset by one person’s critical comments of another person’s body or appearance and have confronted it since I was a teenager.
I am 18 years old in that picture, I was a bartender. I was pretty cute little victim, you think? NOT.
I used to work in this old man’s bar (Saturn). It was a small place, most the customers were regulars but the bar was on one of the major arteries in the city and occasionally someone new would stop in.
One day this these two guys came in. They were younger than what was usual for the place, maybe 30 or 31. Remember I’m a teenager.
I got them their drinks and I can’t recall specifics but they started to piss me off right away. They just irked me with some kind of lecherous thing said under the breath or so I thought. I couldn’t be sure it had actually happened.
Based on that and the fact I was a TOTAL professional, I left it go. After all these were paying customers and I work for the boss, always. So I ignored the thing and went back down the bar to where some of the regulars were… aka friendlier territory.
The two men had a another drink and perhaps another, each time I served them there was some kind of subtle exchange I didn’t like and each time I ignored it. Instead I offered them a nice smile, very hostess-y. I was pretty sure the whole bar was oblivious to what was going on but then it happened.
“Yeah, her breasts okay, I guess. They’ve got a nice shape but they could be a little bigger,” one of the men said as if he were whispering.
Well I’ll be fucking damned.
I was facing the cash register at the time and I spun around, slammed my hand down on the bar (Mars Mercury) – BAM!
“You don’t like my breasts? How about you put your dick and the bar and I’ll tell you what I think of it, son-of-a-bitch!”
The whole bar went silent. No one could believe what I said so I repeated it. “Right here”, I bellowed, cute face and all, again banging my hand in the spot where I thought the dick should go. “Let’s see the dick, you bastard!”
Total silence, though by now the whole bar was staring at these two. The men squirmed for about 4 seconds, muttered something unintelligible and then got up and left and you see nothing has changed.
I have a pretty good bar here and I am in service but I have my limits. I think my limits are in reasonable places but if you think otherwise there are other bars.
People were appalled in the bar that day. The bar was full of men, I was the only women and each of them had a dick. You can just imagine the un-comfort.
My customers had to decide if I was an insane hothead or what. They might have thought so in the moment but fact is I’d been serving them all for a year or more and on a deeper level they knew better.
Do you defend yourself? If not, why not?
I’m scared of confrontation. You’ve got balls.
Oh Elsa!! I don’t have time to respond because I’ve gotta go start my Saturn in Virgo day. Just wanted to say how much I support you. Thank you for the dimples AND the depth!!
Diana, there is a point where I just become fearless. If my book is ever published, I guess you’ll see why. Meantime every once in awhile you can witness and I think this is GOOD for people not otherwise.
It fluctuates. Mostly because I’m not sure whether or not I’m under attack. If I *know* I’m under attack I hit back with pretty much everything I have though. Unless I feel bad about hitting back, and then I hit back only a little or I try to rise above so that its apparent to the world how small they are and how great I am (and yeah, I know thats kind of petty heh).
You know, I didn’t feel one bit bad about that. MY total feeling was, ‘What? You think I am going to put up with that shit? Are you crazy?”
It is not fault people misjudge me. It would be if I misrepresented myself but I don’t… especially on this blog.
Man, but that’s great. Sometimes I worry I’m not witty enough to defend myself so I just let it go. I convince myself pretty easily that I don’t care so I shouldn’t defend myself. But I do! I just don’t have the balls to say anything!
Big clanking balls! I love that story!
Oh my gosh that is so funny…
Yahh uncomfort in the bar because you made them feel actual sexism…The men were wondering in there heads..Wow I don’t want to do that..
What if I am not big enough..
Basically you made them feel what its like to be objectified and judged like women are judged every day by boobs..
I think you made a few feel empathy…
Yaah I defend myself, my temper is legendary..
It comes out rarely but when it does..
Mars in Leo in the 12th is like a violent volcano.
and then its gone..And having mercury so close to uranus both in virgo..It comes out in a viper like direct fast spewing verbal strait to the problem dialogue..
Well I do have the balls and there is literally a point where I will fight you to death. ‘Course I imagine people can see this in the eyes and they tend to opt out.
“‘Course I imagine people can see this in the eyes and they tend to opt out.”
It saves a lot of trouble doesn’t it? I am very rarely challenged but I am completely willing to fight if it comes to it.
Hi Elsa – My problem is I always defend myself, in spades, and then some. This is something I have been trying to work on. Pluto entering my 3rd seems to have made me determined to get my thoughts under control. God knows I will never become a doormat, but I need to really get the assertive vs aggressive thing under control. Becoming a mother toned it down a bit (just a bit), but my initial inner reaction is always to lash out at any perceived attack/affront, rudeness, etc. I do not go around starting fights – I am never mean or nasty just for the hell of it, believe me. My lashing out is always in reaction – to rudeness, aggressiveness, etc. God help anyone who yells at me – holy shit, I let them have it.
GOOD FOR YOU. Nothing to apologize for. Ever. Yes I do defend myself. And I don’t put up with any whining and sniveling while I’m doing it, either. You don’t like the heat baby, then stop fucking around in my kitchen!!!
(Mars in Aries opposed Pluto square Moon)
Society tells women its not ok to yell, we are not supposed to have a temper..
But sometimes well…HE HE
Elsa that is a great story….
*applauds*
Awesome!
Fuck yes I defend myself.
that’s one thing i’ve always respected about you… let alone appreciated for the example.
niceness is overvalued when it opens us up to being doormats.
i defend myself when i feel i have to. which i’m discovering i should probably do more often.
One of my guy pals told me about a turning point in his marriage, when his wife and best friend was expressing her anger, and he reacted by moping and slumping, and she turned to him and said, “do you KNOW what it’s like for me to see you slump like that? I am not a monster and if you go around acting like I am a monster then we are not a worthy match.” And he said in an instant, he grew up into the man he always he knew he could be. Now THAT’S a man who respects women.
I defend myself if I have to, but usually not overtly.
I’ve learned from earlier experiences to defend myself at the time of the attack. I like that in you!
I had neither balls nor a sense of who I was when I was 18, so I have no idea how I would have reacted to something like that at that age. I have to say I admire your comeback. I bet those two knuckleheads thought twice about ever doing that crap again.
I did manage to defend myself and escape a physical attack when I was 17, but that’s a horse of a different color.
These kind of attacks are always depraved, and if the cowards use a public space thinking they will get away with it, they deserve to be exposed right there, in public.
Quite hot in the picture. ; )
What happened on this blog? >.>;
I’d better go look up the recent posts.
Ahh, I gotcha.
I can defend myself, but like anabanana said, it is often covert.
When it isn’t covert, it’s a sight to behold. I have no hot button, exactly; I just simmer until I am so angry I literally see red. I seethe. And when I get that angry, the person pays, although not directly by me. I have no idea how that works, but it’s something that came down from my grandmother. I sure wish I could learn to channel that for world peace.
I hardly defend myself because it actually pisses the other party off even more, to the point where they hurt themselves focusing on me. They forget about their priorities wondering just how much more I’m going to take of their crap, it’s also because no vengeance I partake in is going to help me in the long run. In other words I can’t just defend myself sometimes things can be taken too far, so I tend to keep silent I know what I want and I am going for it. Not drama, can’t afford it. Too high of a price, but for all of the people that hate me because of what someone told them. I feel like I’ve got thousands of people that shame me I can give a damn If I gather a couple of thousand more; especially off of lies or bullshit that shouldn’t matter to a stranger i.e. someone you don’t know. My main reason though is, I ‘m thinking about my next life, and I’m not suicidal just damn smart.
WHaaat? Do you mean to tell me that those guys didn’t just take one look at you, realize you’re italian, and RUN.
I have italian women in the extended family and they have nicknames like “the general” “the little general” “the boss” etc. etc. NO ONE messes with them.
Too funny. You don’t look like a cute victim to me.
Mud – I was thinking about this and what struck me is how times have changed. Disrespect me and meet Jesus. Now these girls can’t wait to put their crotchs all over the internet. I can’t help it, I think it lacks class. CHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAP.
Elsa – yes, the same occurs to me even though I’m a part of that generation in some ways. I guess I just really value my privacy and intimacy with one person. That I’m special to him and he’s special to me is very important in my world.
Maybe it’s the outcome of the aids scare after all of the free-love-peace sex of the 70s. Instead of giving your love you “show” your love? But that doesn’t make sense as it doesn’t strike me as love but as commercial/business gain.
hrm. Here’s to hoping that capricorn pluto brings back some class. Every woman I know longs for hats and 1940’s outfits where women were pretty, classy and strong in a strange way. Speaking of hats – I discovered the wonders of wool felt with a brim – NO SNOW on your face when it’s comin’ down fast and furious. 🙂
You betcha. I have a Scorpio male “friend” who insists on getting inside everyone’s head. Nooooo, it’s not because he cares, it’s because he wants to demonstrate his mental/intuitive prowess and needs an ego boost. Thing is, he’s wrong most of the time. He pulled this shit on me for the last time last week (got my motivations wrong AGAIN) and I had this to say:
“I do want to stay friends, but I also have some boundaries that aren’t likely to dissolve anytime soon. Which can be outlined:
1) Nobody gets inside my head without an invitation.
2) If you insist on barging in anyway, your assumptions had better be correct.
I think we can work through our tendencies and idiosyncrasies. I promise to try my best. :-)”
Haven’t heard from this amateur psychoanalyst in a week. You see, in my experience, people who try to “figure you out” and tell you so aren’t doing so out of love; they’re doing it to display their mental/intuitive agility and quite probably fishing for an ego boost in the process. Those who really want to get inside your head because they innocently want to understand you will, well, ask how you feel. I’m nobody’s mental gymnasium, not even for a Scorpio.
Thanks, I needed to vent. What an asshole.
Sorry, forgot to edit. I repeated a lot in the last paragraph that had already been said in the first. Oh well!
Elsa, I hope you and your brass balls aren’t freezing up there tonight!
LOL, that was awesome! And funny, too!;)
I was in my late 20’s before I got to where you were as a teenager… Kudos, lots and lots:)
And Merry Christmas!:) Wish you and your family a fun, joyful and relaxing holiday:)
honey,
I will remember that one, it is perfect. Kudos to you and your sense of self at such a young age. Perfect.
You have given many a woman a perfect answer to the never ending T and A harrassment.
much thanks to you!
Elsa, you’re pics always remind me of Ashley Judd, gorgeous!!
Heck yes I defend myself, and others too. I just despise disrespect…who do you think you are???
“your” pics, not “you’re” ugh.
Cherie, if it happened to you and your friend, he probably did inappropriate things to other people as well.
i never heard this kind of thing from men. even obnoxious drunk fools.
women, on the other hand, do it a lot. just in a different way. snide whispers just loud enough that everyone can hear them. constantly trying to break someone down. and, yeah, no one can stand up to that sort of scrutiny without someone finding a reason to fault them. if nothing else… “she’s so hot, i bet she’s a stuck up B*tch.”
…there is a sort of guy out there, though, that will abuse a woman’s (culturally ingrained) tendency to try to appear nice and at some point it seems, you have to tell them to piss off. repeatedly. because nothing else will get through.
took me awhile to realize this though.
i think people tend to think i’m an easy target. neptune square pisces mars? and, well, i try hard to be nice and forgiving until someone hits a boundary and then, bam! a little explosive, then :/
took me awhile to bring in the boundaries to places that made sense. i honestly couldn’t believe people were trying to do the things they were trying to do until there was no way to ignore it. ignored my intincts in that regard. have figured out quite a bit over time about what it means when i get that feeling about someone, though. tricky business that. don’t want to be paranoid and constantly mistrusting people… i try to believe the best until i know otherwise…
i don’t think you grew up in that same culture though 😉
i think maybe my virgo ascendant puts off that kind of commenting from men. don’t know. the whole aura of innocence.
i’m sure all kinds of things get said when i’m not around. but that’s a form of male discourse and it’s not my responsibility to deal with it if i don’t know about it.
wyrdling i haven’t heard that kind of whispering since high school. on the other hand i have worked in bars and heard that from men all the time.
booze…it’s a real bummer.
Oh yes… I will defend myself. Like Elsa, I’ll give the person the benefit of the doubt until I know for sure they’re crossing the line, and then I let them have it!
Defend? with my Mars in Taurus in the 7th house it seems a rather constant in my life! Of course!
Elsa P. Rocks!
oh, gosh, i’ve spent time around women who did that kind of thing at advanced ages… 🙁
maybe it’s the bars i go to. i usually hang around in places where i have a couple intimidating male friends around… most definitely a subconscious defensive tactic…
It occurs to me this is a prime example of the Gravitational Slingshot that is Elsa P.
i’m sorry, i’m not trying to discount your experience, w.:(
I come from the 4th generation of 3+ daughters (only daughters!) on my maternal side of the family.
i guess i’ve had enough of the dark side to last me a zillion lifetimes so i got lucky this time round.
i know this type of bashing exists, just not anyone remotely close to me…though i was called a dyke once in 1998 because i was chewing an icecube, lol
…hope this clarifies…i definitely believe you when you say this is your experience.
dykes chew ice cubes??? ::insert big round eyes::
😀
well the woman who said it was a very angry drunk. i laughed. i think i was supposed to be insulted or something. my laughter did not help…
i’m in a playful, mischievous, laughing mood/mode today for some reason… and that made ~me~ laugh too (i happen to ~be~ a dyke)
😀
(this week hasn’t been a week for laughter, so me laughing today is good 😉 )
I do not defend myself. I was taught to take what comes. I will defend others, mostly just my husband. Occasionally a parent. But that’s about it. I do try and present a reasonable side when someone says something unintellegent about someone else. Everyone forgets that everyone else is human too. We all have bad days or moments, make mistakes, misunderstand. Everyone has flaws, some may seem to have bigger ones, but they are just different ones.
i remembered:)
i love this place.