This is from a consultation with a gal in regards to her young daughter..
“I’m sorry if this stresses you but I do think it’s something you should be aware of. Venus in Virgo is the quintessential, Persephone figure. The Pluto square can be played out in bad ways. It can also be played out in good ways.
Your daughter will attract power and I mean BIG power. Jupiter in involved.
I think you get the idea. Don’t let Roman Polanski near your daughter.”
Do you have Venus in aspect to Pluto in your chart? Have you come across power themes in your relationships? Tell us!
Elsa, this is the best example of what is uniquely wonderful about you – saying the hard shit, knowing it’s gonna be hard to say and harder to hear, and somehow managing to be sensitive about it all. Thank you for pointing that out to her. I know it’s painful, but hopefully giving her the awareness will save future distress. I say this as someone who suffered silently through years of sexual abuse and misconduct because I didn’t feel like I could speak up. It took me years to get untangled from that, and I feel like I missed part of my life because of it.
Venus in early Cancer square Pluto (out of sign) in late Virgo. I likes me some power play, even now. Fortunately I didn’t break completely.
Venus in Pisces opposite Pluto and Uranus conjunct in Virgo… Power themes, power struggles and power plays have always been a big part of my relationships… I’ve grown weary of the games people play in order to attempt to control me… As if I’m out of control? Shit, I’m one of the most in control people I’ve ever known… I am extremely passionate and have a very strong will but never behave in an out of control fashion… So, what the fuck were those people thinking? I have experienced sexual abuse in the form of being raped – again another form of power play – but have had some tender times with partners as well… The best partner thus far is my hubby… His Pisces Moon and Venus in Aries speak volumes to me…
Yes, Venus in Cancer (in the 12th) square Pluto in Libra (in the the 3rd). Power struggles are def a theme!
Interesting. I just divorced last year and I did feel like my husband had a weird — and uncomfortable — control over my life. Power issues that were very present but under the surface. Every time I’d think of leaving I’d get this weird feeling to “hide all the knives in the kitchen”. I had an irrational fear of him. I don’t have a Venus Pluto connection in my natal chart. But I have Venus in Virgo conjunct my ex’s Pluto. It was very strange and made me feel a bit insane.
I have venus in virgo in the eighth house involved in a t-square with jupiter and saturn; pluto and uranus in a loose conjunction in the eighth.
My first email address was persephone@; back before I knew I basically had her chart.
Most of my story was kind of deeply psychological though. I’ve been in some dangerous situations and managed to twist away clean, at least physically; places I ended up out of absolute stupidity. I think it was just dumb luck. Sometimes I think my dad was watching over me.
I know women with hard venus/pluto aspects who were not that lucky.
Venus opposed Pluto. Every single relationship romantic or platonic–this has come up. I have a ton of fear. The roots go deep.
What does Venus in Virgo square Pluto in a man’s chart manifest? I have Pluto in Virgo square Chiron and had abuse situations all my childhood with various people, even with other kids, but didn’t know at the time it was anything to worry about. I guess with Chiron in Aquarius I thought friends can’t hurt me?
Dawn, it is the same. It’s like the cop and the criminal – there is commonality there.
I read somewhere that Venus/Pluto was a common aspect among Presidents’ wives.
Do you have Venus in aspect to Pluto in your chart? Have you come across power themes in your relationships?
I have Venus and Pluto conjunct in the House of Relationships (7H)… so… power issues are a given in my relationships!
BEING AWARE of this dynamic though (via astrology) has made all the difference in the world.
What if the natal chart aspect is Venus trine Pluto? Would it still be a marker for something abusive? Or in a trine does it soften the experience?
Should I worry about my daughter Elsa? Yes, NO
Michael, she doesn’t have that aspect.
Yes I have Venus (and Mars) in the 1st House squaring Pluto (and Uranus) in the 9th. The Sun is in the 11th House in Scorpio separated from Pluto by a 2 minute arc. Thanks to Jeremy Neal from Chirotic Journal, I am more conscious of the power struggles that have plagued my life. Metaphorically speaking, he went in like a surgeon to find the patterns I was holding and raise them to my attention. A trained psychotherapist would not have managed to do what Jeremy did for me.
Thank you Elsa!!! You’re so kind as usual! It’s very comforting to know it! 🙂
does Venus in Scorpio count?
it’s not necessarily abuse so much as ending up tossed into other people dirty laundry pretty darn often (mine too. gotta’ learn somewhere.) let’s say i’ve become rather cynical around how most people behave in relationships.
and maybe if i didn’t have saturn playing too i’d enjoy it more. i don’t know.
mine’s an opposition.
Woah.
Venus (Aqu. H8) square Pluto (Scorp. H5).
Sexual abuse and inappropriate attention was a huge theme ever since puberty started, through high school. I worked *REALLY* hard to get it under wraps.
Still, there are lots of threads that remain untied.
I don’t know if I consciously attract power struggles, but I know that I am attracted to powerful people. My take on it is, if you’re going to learn, why learn from anyone but the best? I am definitely power hungry.
@jana: Yeah, I remember reading that somewhere, too!
What are some of the positive aspects that can come when this square is resolved, or worked through?
*EDIT*
Venus is also conj. my sun (Aqu.) and Mercury (Cap), all in H8. My IC is in Virgo. I guess there is a whole lot of info going on there; I have no idea how to interpret it.
Yes and yes.
I can remember an argument I had with the ex once where he quite exasperatedly said, “You see power plays in everything!”
“Yes, I do. Because it’s there even if you don’t want to acknowledge it.” *grins*
Venus conjunct Mars-Pluto in Libra/4.
I have Venus in Pisces (2nd) opposite Pluto in my 8th (Virgo). For me it’s been about balancing my own self-worth/worthlessness and power/powerlessness in relationships. I have too often erred on the side of Pisces, not valuing myself enough in 8th house matters (esp. sexual relationships); not that I am promiscuous (despite Scorpio moon!) but that I tend to give my sexual power away and/or not realize that power as something precious. Definitely a lesson driven home for me this year as PLuto conjuncts my ascendant. Yes. This power issue has been a big one for me to understand and integrate — I’m still working on it. I am thankful it is the only opposition in my chart!!!!
Forgot to mention: My Venus is conjunct (exactly!!) Chiron in Pisces, so this self-worth has been wounded / is a big wound / has been a big wound for me — It’s as if Pluto is really the guy I need to turn to for any balance on this issue, in order to heal. When I act from my 8th house Pluto, when I feel my worth/power come from the depths, then I heal the wound (or at least don’t make it any worse). Pluto in Virgo in the 8th has been peroxide on my Venus in Pisces conjunct Chiron in the 2nd — hurts, but you know it’s cleansing out the bad stuff. And you WILL heal.
I have Venus square Pluto. No sexual abuse but much need to control my own sexuality to the point of abstaining from the whole dance because the dynamic was so out of balance and weird in teen years that it made me feel powerless. Unless you found that one cool guy, it felt too much like being prey to me during those formative years. Sorry, all you cool guys but you weren’t around or interested in me.
I never thought about how the square could help attract powerful people or power itself, but that’s been true for me, not necessarily in sexual relationships but in other ways, and a real positive, so thanks for pointing it out. I also have Jup. conj. Pluto. I have always depended on the kindness of strangers! (I’m pretty sure Blanche Dubois had Venus square Pluto…)
Uh Oh. I have Venus (12th hous, Cap) square to Pluto (singleton, 8th house, Libra). Also, Venus is sextile to Uranus….I have had many powerful men attracted to me. FAIL for all. How to manage this aspect?
reading this again, I’ve learned a lot about the story of Persephone, and definitely a young woman who seems to “serve” or is giving, too much of herself to a man. Persephone has only two choices, a powerful man who controls her, abuses, or she finds herself someone “safe”, and finds a good man to nurture/mother/take good care of. I think she has a powerful, psychic, loving connection with her mother (Demeter) Maybe it isn’t always loving with some, but the psychic connection is there.
I have venus square pluto in my chart, also uranus in the seventh house, both aspect which I have found are sign of sexual abuse.
I was raped when I was 19 and astrology have helped me a lot with my healing process.
ST has Venus square Pluto. He has had some horrific experiences (not sexual, but power-based) with females who served as his live-in caregiver/lover. At one point he almost died under one woman’s care.
Saturn and Venus in Cancer (women). Venus in the 5th, Saturn in the 6th. Go figure. He always seems to land himself in the position of being someone else’s bitch. This aspect sucks!
🙁
this is good article to be aware of, and the squares attraction. I had to go look up Sharon tate’s chart again as she was married to Roman Polanski. I did read that virgo is related to Persophene.
I have Venus in Capricorn in the 12th house squaring Pluto in Libra in the 8th. Grew up with a very controlling parent, attracted sexual attention from creepy older men when I was still a child.
No, only alcoholics, musicians, artists and the suicidal. Venus (in Libra) square neptune! 🙂
Sorry for this completely irrelevant comment.
Predators who want to misuse other people, are always looking for prey. When we know we had a close call, a near miss, might be a call to speak up. To call out the predator.
Publicly, about the predator, I mean. Shine a spotlight where they thought they were protected, in wrongdoing, by shadow.
My ex BF and I has Pluto and Saturn square Venus in 7th/10th house of out midpoint chart.
So yes, absolutely. Bad powerplays, nasty comments, silent treatments, issues regarding “who’s in control” – more like that. It’s nasty, and the break-up ditto (emotional abuse, emotional cheating, power plays – again, projecting guilt …) eeew, and I’m kinda scared of this guy now.
Should have seen it coming though… I heard some of the stuff he did to other people before, including exes, so I’m not really surprised.
My nieces has an 8H Virgo Venus squaring her 11H Scorpio Pluto; and her 2H Aquarius Saturn opposes her Venus and squares her Pluto forming a T-square. She has an on again (Venus-Pluto)/off again (Venus-Saturn) relationship with her ex-boyfriend with whom she has a child. And just for added torture, her 8H Virgo Venus quincunxes her 1H Capricorn Uranus/Neptune conjunction (“He’s changed, things will be different this time and we’ll be a happy family!”). Her 11H Pluto also forms a kite with the 1H Uranus/Neptune conjunction and her 8H Virgo Sun. Her 8H Leo Moon sextiles her 9H Libra Mercury – she loves (Leo) to talk (Mercury) about her drama (Moon) on Facebook (9H rules Internet). She can divert some of her good anchoring/decision making abilities from her career and apply them to her personal life – 2H Aquarius Saturn trines her 10H Libra Mars/Jupiter conjunction (She is an administrator in the penal system).
I see a lot of power plays amongst Baby Scorp and her friends. I watch this carefully, because she’s in 7th grade, a very difficult age. She has Venus/Pluto conjunct in Sag in the 5th, square Jupiter (Virgo) in the 2nd and Mars (Pisces) in the 8th.
Luckily for her, she has a Water grand trine with Mars involved, and a sharp tongue – Mercury in early Sag square Uranus in late Aqua. She’s no one’s patsy.
I have venus square pluto 3′ orbis. My oldest daughter has the square out of sign and 10′ orbis, my youngest has a Venus-Pluto opposition 4′ orbis. How close does this aspect have to be to count in your opinion? And is there a big difference between the square and the opposition?
Thank you for such honesty. It was a real ‘smack in the face’ moment for me. My chart is very similar to Princess Diana’s – a week apart tho’. In whole sign houses, Venus 1* Gemini H7 square to MC 2*, Mars 3* & Pluto 5* Virgo H10.
Where has all my power struggles emanated from?
Ex-husband, mother, bosses, others – emotional abuse, psychological abuse, social abuse, physical abuse, financial abuse; you name it, those bastards do it. It has made me very careful who I let into my world & who I excise from it.
I am estranged from both my mother/brother as they took sides with my ex not that mother needed much of an excuse anyway. He up & abruptly walked out after 23 yrs of marriage without saying anything more than, ‘I need to go sort my head out’. That was it! I heard some gossip & rumours later that it was all my fault, that I had mental problems, that I was a bad mother, etc. He just never said it me but told everyone else, including our teenage children. I now know who really has the problems when they cannot take responsibility.
Once I woke up to what was occurring, I cut the ties completely. I never take their calls, delete their messages unread, changed my address, went silent wherever I could. That kept me same & protected me.
In family court, I never looked at him; always had my back to him or turned sideways & held my head high. Family court was a waste of time. He got to keep everything. Can we add Legal abuse too? I worked for the full 23 yrs of marriage & ran small businesses simultaneously but he kept it all. He had a midlife crisis & I am the one who wore it! In the time before court & the day before my 50th, he texted that he’d closed our bank account, cleaned me out & then sent me bankrupt. STD = sexually transmitted debt & it is not a fun place to be. Talk about abuse!
My last couple of experiences at work (government) were equally as horrible. I had bosses caught up in power plays that I wanted no part of but got turfed out anyway; one even pretended to be a friend who I had met through learning astrology but soon showed her real colours.
Thank goodness for astrology. It has kept me sane & provided a greater, deeper level of understanding that no clinical psychologist ever could. Apparently, I was scored to 49 out of 50 of some suicidal scale GP’s use before referring patient’s off to clinical psychs! Always being interested in astrology, I charged headlong into learning it properly once he walked. For that I will be forever grateful.
Elsa, you can keep your brutally honest snippets coming. I found your site from a link on John Townley’s. I really appreciate it.
You’re welcome, Louie. I’m sorry for all you’ve been through.
Same story here, Louie; My Q for Elsa is: Is there a positive side? What’s the lesson? Power comes with a price? less conscious=more expensive ?
History of severe sexual abuse in childhood, no pluto / venus square. Pluto opposite chiron / jupiter conjunction though.
Aspects can always swing both ways. Hard to tell if it indicates victim or perpetrator. Hillary Clinton is a good example. As hard as they’ve tried to portray Donald Trump as an abuser of women, it’s Hillary whose Pluto (Conjunct her Mars) is Square to Venus, the very aspect you’ve described as the astrological marker for sexual abuse.
So, was she the victim or the abuser? I suspect, in her lifetime, she’s played both roles.
I have Venus conjunct Saturn in cancer in the 12th square moon in Virgo conjunct Pluto in libra in the 3rd. I was verbally and physically abused a neighbor boy that I was madly in love with at 15. I was bullied. Huge power struggles with my father, brother, mother, cousins, aunts, future bf’s, and ex-husband. Just realized I was married to a narcissist and he cheated on me and made me think I was crazy when I started to realize things didn’t add up. Also powerful men/bosses seek me out. I know that I have issues vacillating between feeling powerful and powerless. I had Horribly low self esteem, but just came off a Venus opp Pluto transit (currently opposing saturn) and I have stayed single the last 3 years to figure out my issues. I’m tired of fighting. I’m tired of attracting people who hurt me. My Dad was very domineering and emotionally abused my mother. So I guess all I have ever seen is control or be controlled. I know I have to know my worth and stop participating in the games. Power does not equal love.
Venus in Aries, 9th house opposite Pluto in Libra 3rd house/Saturn in Scorpio on my IC… My mother was extremely abusive. I have repressed almost all of my childhood memories and cannot recall anything specific about it. I most just remember feeling afraid constantly. And walking on eggshells. She was very explosive over every little thing. She was also cold and never hugged me or cuddled me or consoled me, not even once that I remember. I do remember craving that though and being rejected over and over. I remember never being rewarded for anything or her taking any kind of interest in my life.
Oh and lillith on the midpoint of the opposition.
Which would be a t-square to lillith
An astrologer told me once that i have likely been a victim of sexual abuse as a child and repressed the memories but I refused to believe him. I will probably never know. I did repress everything else so who knows. Its so weird because I can’t remember hardly anything. I have no happy stories to tell. I try to remember but I have literally blocked it all out. There is nothing there.
I was sexually abused by both parents
I have a stellium of Scorpio planets Sun- Mercury -Venus and Mars in the 6th house
I have Venus square Pluto 0 degrees
Capricorn Jupiter-Saturn and South Node ~ in the 8th
Venus square Pluto, tried to date another Venus square Pluto. We both have Venus in aquarius. It was like we were at war. He got abusive really quickly. We both had a hard time letting it go but I ultimately blocked him and forgot about the
Pain in the partnership. Can’t even be friends once I saw that side of him. And all I was trying to get was a little respect and consideration!
I have this aspect with a very close orb and it is one of the most hated aspects in my chart because it ruins what I desperately want,which is love. I was molested by a neighbor at age 9 which continued until I was about 14, and then during this I also had to deal with physical abuse from teachers in the form of corporal punishment. If they had only known wtf I was going through maybe they wouldn’t have hit me or have showed compassion when I was disruptive but whatever,**** them. Every romantic relationship I’ve gone through has been abusive mentally,emotionally or verbally or a combo of all three. I’m so tired of attracting manipulative assholes,racist pricks,men who use me for their own sexual needs,or men who want complete control over my entire person that I’m about ready to just throw in the towel on relationships altogether. Then you have people telling you you’ll only attract this until you learn self worth. Well I’ve done all that and all I ever get is this ridiculous circular manipulative relationship bs. I’m so done. I hate this aspect. What’s the point of being born beautiful and having all the talents and goodness in the world if it all gets poured into the ground for nothing? Do I deserve 50 more years of this shit?! Om just done. This is a curse aspect and nothing will convince me otherwise unless I see change in my own life or in the life of someone else who has this aspect in a hard pattern. Otherwise it’s just nothing more than a life ruining disaster.
Forgot to mention my placement is Leo Venus in the 1st house squared by Scorpio Pluto from the 4th. I’m afraid I’ll never be free from the ********* this placement causes. I really feel like this either forces you to be alone your entire life (even if you really don’t want to)or just live a life of misery and suffering under someone else’s control. I hate this aspect. Every time I think about it I get extremely depressed.
I have been a victim of sexual abuse before but I don’t have Venus square Pluto in my chart. I have Scorpio ASC and Pluto in the 1st house so there could be a magnetism there with the urge of touching something that is forbidden.
I actually got curious about astrological aspects of sexual abuse and looked at the Astrodienst databank of natal charts for that. You know what those charts all had in common? Venus square ASC, which I also have. I think that’s one indicator of being subjected to sex abuse in the chart. I also know someone with Venus square Pluto natally but they haven’t said that they were sexually abused, just regular child abuse.