Pluto Retrograde: May 1, 2023 – Individuals vs Groups: Power & Influence

pied piperPluto ingressed into Aquarius in March.  Since then, we’ve all be sort of looking at the new thing.

Some have felt empowered by this shift. Other have been devastated. We’re talking about Pluto so the extremes make sense.

I also note that Aquarius in concerned with the individual. It also makes sense we would experience this shift, independently.

I’ve experienced both extremes as well as noted the power shift in the collective.  I can’t say I’ve every had a transit hit me in such a way.   It feel like a tuning fork that’s be rung… the quivering has been sustained.

We kind of teach astrology here so if you want to see what this is about, I lay out this never-again scenario, here, if you want to learn:

Pluto Transit Progressed Jupiter, Venus & Mercury

Recently, I was talking to one of my oldest friends, Ben. He’s a Scorpio with an Aquarius rising so this combination of energies is familiar to him.  Ben has participated in a lifelong debate regarding the power of the individual vs the power of the group.  He’s stood for the individual for decades but now sees it differently?  I’m not used to him changing his mind about anything, but this does seem relevant at this time.

One question that comes to mind; does an individual have more power if they are part of a group?

Should individuality be sacrificed for the good of the group or should the group accommodate the outsider individual?

For me it’s the latter. I always mention my Italian heritage when this comes up.  Italians are pretty good about including the family nutcase or the town fool, or whatever.  We’re proud of our eccentricities. My mother (double Aquarius) stood out like this.  Here, she and randomly Ben collide.

I prefer to remain an outlier.  I don’t even feel there is an option in my case but what I really see with this combination is the power of an individual to lead a group.

I’m talking about Pied Piper types who lead large groups… into traps, often enough.  These people are called “influencers” today.   Are they empowering you or is it something else?

It worth taking a gut check on this.  Deep down, how do you feel?

24 thoughts on “Pluto Retrograde: May 1, 2023 – Individuals vs Groups: Power & Influence”

  1. The way I look at it is from a manager’s perspective. If the team is working together like clockwork, it makes the individuals of the team look Good. If I am doing all the work or come up with the Ideas I want the credit for it. Too often I have had Ideas stolen etc. My downfall can sometimes be failure to delegate. On another note. Since Saturn went into Pisces I have moved again. Now the transit is opposite my 0 degree Jupiter. I have become Anal about everything. Organizing , making sure all my decor is just perfect. Just went through last years paper work. Its like I am driven and can’t stop. Is that the transit that is doing that?

  2. I never fare well in a group, for long.

    I think it’s my habit of champing at my bit. I always want to leave, I feel restrained, I feel like I’m waiting…. and when I do leave, I always knew I was going to.

    These groups of friends, movies, where they age together? I can’t see myself being part of something like that. Long friendships, one on one, yes! Clearly. But a group?

    No Aquarius and no 11th house. I just don’t have this function.

    1. Avatar
      Shimmering Light

      Same here. Not even online groups. One on one – love it; that’s my strength. Nothing in the 11th house either and ruler of 11th is in the 5th. I do have Saturn in Aquarius. Noticed that I was relieved during the Covid pandemic not to have to hug and kiss complete strangers (I have never understood this custom!) and another piece of the Saturn in Aquarius puzzle fell into place: Social distancing with strangers really suits my nature :-), and I’m happy to hug and kiss my friends.

  3. There are groups and there are sub groups working within the main group, for good or ill, and individuals, who set themselves up to control and direct the group. If everyone agrees they work as a team towards a common goal…until they don’t. Sometimes it gets sorted out in a fair way with ‘all voices heard’ sometimes certain ones go, or are pushed out.Maybe they start another group…

    Sometimes the group is better for the change,sometimes not.

    Too many groups want things to stay exactly as they have always been –power bases don’t welcome change–it means they have to give some power away.

    I will stay with a group for the common good, but will step away if it goes against my principles, or is inaffective or destructive.

    Some people are great at manipulating groups to achieve personal aims–not necessary group aims.

    Perhaps real change will come when a certain ‘personality type’ stops ending up being on top of the heap running things.

    I am a bit of a fringe dweller with groups at the moment. I have left a couple…l kept meeting the same ones–usually men around retirement age desparate to have an underling. Or, oldly, really nasty old women who were once Brownies and never grew out of it …l told one that she would make Brown Owl sad…

    We need groups, but l am not sure about how much l need them right now, l have said good-bye to some old friends too–they werent friends anymore and l dont miss them…maybe one…

    Saturn Cap on the 11th house cusp. Chiron Aquarius.

    This is a group, Elsa–different ones coming and going–isn’t this the longest running Astro. blog? You are doing something right.

  4. Been an outlier all my life from the time I read tarot at age 14 and put together basic astrology charts from some book club book I bought around same time. I float in and out of groups.I feel that survival in the coming times may rely on being a part of a group/community, but I also don’t stay in a group for long. Recently,since holidays, December-ish,I’ve disconnected from several social groups I was a part of.. I got annoyed with members who lived in deep drama.. and began bringing it to the group gathering all.the. time.I mean bad stuff.. one woman’s son was murdered and we had to replay the court trial at our weekly art group gathering.Another group member’s son was IN PRISON for murdering someone, she somehow bonded with the mother whose son was a victim, another woman was beat up by her husband, and this group became a morass of “therapy” type interactions (except NO ONE WAS QUALIFIED TO DO THERAPY!) Long story. I dropped out. A few friends got lost during covid and are having health issues related to bad habits they can’t shake. ANd a few other folks I had befriended disappointed me and I’ve been in solitude, blissfully, since December..just doing my own thing,A lot of pondering,meditation, astrology study, and time in nature.. I am an only child and enjoy my own company quite a lot.I enjoy the company of others when it feeds my soul, so I drop in and out of various gatherings,but none really “stick”…

  5. When l was 6/7 yrs l made my mother stop the car…can’t you hear the angels singing? It wasn’t the wind in the cypress…at around 14, l got my school to introduce an elective called The Supernatural (and they did!)…l felt things, saw things, heard things–not all the time, but at important turning points. Like today l can’t shake the image of Forrest Gump…when he starts running and loses his leg braces…

    I am a reader too, Madeline.

    Like you, l am loving solitude and roaming. No more extra groups for me…unless??… nothing feels fixed. Yes, you heard that from a Bull, but l have lots of water too- a little island, perhaps part of an archipelago.

  6. I have an empty 11th but i have aquarius but been never part of any group for long i think this community is the longest but i can come and go. I like having the door open to come and go just like a jupiterian 😊 im more of an outlier then. I dont like to be boxed in.

    1. to supplement to this, my mother in law has jupiter in aquarius although she’s capricorn stellium, she’s into many groups and organizations. She attends meetings and social reform groups even after retirement. (such as bird and book & hiking clubs Me and my husband have started to attend some groups we put charity in, such as environmental for example. we give charity to a bird, plants, and wildlife protection. And sometimes they have twice a year group meetings in how to help the environment. they mostly send us brochures every month to read. And the last meeting we offered what plants we are going to put in our new garden. they suggested not to put certain flowers/plants in our garden because it really doesnt contribute to the environment other than asthestic.birds and bees need to be able to pollinate and the circle continues. i was very agreeable for contributing type of plants they suggested but i still wanted a couple of the plants in there that they did not like for me to have.

      i felt as if being hemmed in, because why can’t i put my own type of plants i want in there when we’re going to make the majority of the entire garden contribute to the rest of the environment? sometimes i felt as if they were telling me what to do and how to make our garden instead of suggestions.
      although i know that being in that community we do have to be aware and contribute thats why we’re there, but there’s just no harm in also putting one or two of my own type of plants i want. i mean i’m also going to put stones and rocks in there too.

      i was so awed the other month during holidays when visiting the sagittarius sister, and her virgo hubby, they had this huge square barrel type of construction that catches rainwater for the plants to water. I thought wow thats amazing for the environment and saving water.

        1. oh i’m sorry AqLurker, i worded maybe wrong, but i was telling that community that i’m putting hydrangea flowers in the garden and they got all ‘no no you can’t do that’ but i wasn’t going to make my garden with all that. of course there are many other flowers and plants we will put in there that will be contributing to the environment/birds/bees ect. The hydrangea flowers were genetically modified, although there are those which show the seeds, but the ones i wanted a couple in there are the ones which bloom all flowers. this is purely aesthetic and doesn’t benefit birds or bees.

          1. Avatar
            Aquarius Lurker

            I understood you. I’m telling you that perhaps next year the community may think differently about it. Stick to your heart’s desire. Don’t be discouraged 🙂

  7. I have an 11th house stellium sun mars mercury moon north node Taurus in opp to Neptune – and Saturn in Pisces at my midheaven… needless to say I’m all about the group/community and even work for a nonprofit in community engagement. I’m looking forward to Plutos entry into Aquarius, rough as it may be. Although all this change has been unsettling to my Taurus soul….

  8. Elsa, I so relate to your comment “and when I do leave, I always knew I was going to”……thank you for this, its just me being me!

  9. Really relate to being an outlier. I’ve always been a little “off” when it comes to what the group feels is important and my ideas or contributions are rarely valued. I also trigger people, though I’m not clear on why. Wondering if there are natal aspects that we outliers may share? Or signatures that indicate one will always be outside the crowd?

  10. I feel like a hawk circling not sure about landing, I create my lonely ,maybe, maybe
    Not.Not sure how or why drama finds me?
    Been thinking of writing a letter to some of these chain clothing designers because if they make it more popular to look like the FedEx guy or UPS deliver person . I’m sure none of the unexpected will get shot, if It’s a person at the front door and thought they had a package coming. 👍🏼I’m hoping spring is the recipe that nourishes this little strange feel inside, just part of me for so long ,I’m sure it’s driven by my intermittent observations of TV or phone screens. I really like to start swimming daily too cold here. Don’t want to start dealing with chlorine. Happy Friday. Decided” If “is a strange word.

  11. I am not looking forward to it; just when I thought Pluto was moving on from aspecting natal Saturn, it goes back in; I have had an operation on both eyes, and have seen my eyesight deteriate when natal Saturn was being aspected by transiting Pluto and Natal Pluto being aspected by transiting Saturn; it just keeps on giving!!!

  12. The “tuning fork” feel you describe Elsa; that’s what I’m feeling. Sustained! I have 11th House occupancy in my Natal Jupiter and Venus but also a Uranus (revolution and change) that charges up my Mars-Saturn conjoined in the 8th House
    I’ve been way off the charts with fight or flight and sought out a way to reset my hypothalamus (ancient brain) to get a grip. Planting seeds and getting dirty is great for this cuz the seeds and plant people have eons of adaptive genes I can’t hold a candle to.
    My Progressed is in Aquarius and there’s years of this probably the rest of my life. I like Raerae’s description of flying around not sure of where to land 😁

    1. Yes, it’s something else.
      Moki, I think you’re in good shape as you and your husband have been living a quiet life for many years now.

  13. hello,

    it’s really interesting to try to see how work the paradox of Aquarius sign as aquarius want to be unique but in the meanwhile the 11th house that rule aquarius sign represent groups. So Aquarius struggle show how to be unique and belonging to a group with his values without jeopardizing my own values ? the failure to merge with a group make the rebel with an aquarian often behind this.

    Your question falls along with this aquarius theme one vs/with group : Should individuality be sacrificed for the good of the group or should the group accommodate the outsider individual ?

    this question make me think about what happen to soccer player Karim Benzema at the world cup 2022. Staff told him he is injured and can’t play the world cup and ordered him to leave the team and go back to his home. After the World Cup lose, a X-ray picture of Benzema wound has leaked on twitter showing he could have played from quarter to final. This trigger a huge scandal on soccer scene, and people trying to understand what’s going on ? Actually, he was rejected from the team by the staff with a lie on his health status because he was rejected from the group. The french coach probably chose group cohesion instead of the leader with strong character (Benzema won golden ball 2022). French people think it was the good thing to do and even if France lose the final World Cup it’s good. Yet, when you look at the other choice : choosing Karim Benzema could have make won France…Argentine has the same issues with player Di maria, they wait him in Final and win the cup…this saying a lot. Another input along with pied pipper of Hamelin story in the poor management of this player during the world cup showing a truth : Benzema has been rejected but he is the only player of the french team that has not been soiled by all the trashtalk and humiliation from Argentina team after the final like being rejected from a group was finally protecting him in the end. And now, if he won the champion’s league, he will probably won his 2nd golden ball…

    i’m aries 1st decan and i was rejected and bullied from a group some years ago when pluto was in capricorn because of my ideas, my behaviour. this experience was traumatic but i choose to leave the group and stay on my own,stick to my values instead of following the group. They tried to manipulate me and even sabotage me in order i align myself with the group values. I hate that. I have some resentement and revenge desire when i think how bad i was treated. Plus they block all my progress by doing social undermining leading to major power issues. I am forced to hide myself to live, tell nothing about my project but they have a lot of power. as pluto entering in Aquarius sign and making a sextile to my aries sun, i hope i will have this pied pipper final twist that release me from this toxic group.

  14. Elsa, your comment, “These groups of friends, movies, where they age together? I can’t see myself being part of something like that. Long friendships, one on one, yes! Clearly. But a group?” resonates with me. I have individual friendships going back more than 60 years but the idea of being in a group??? I like my independence and usually are attracted to outliers. I have Saturn and Mars in the 11th house, so it’s easy to lead a group for a cause, like a work or volunteer project, but not for socialization — please!!!
    There is a group of the nicest women who have befriended me — even gave me a birthday party a few months after meeting me — but they do absolutely everything together and I abhor groups!!! I am trying to strike a balance here by meeting with them a few times a month. Can a group be almost too nice?

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